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LuckySports

Landscape Designer
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Jul 7, 2008
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1,243
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Nonya
Its less common, but still happens.. And if you want proof, go to the BR thread.. Plenty of proof of CW pwning in there :p
 

Dimitar

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
2,388
I see a lot of opinions but I want proof!

Also on another topic,does anybody PB rush PoMs anymore!?

Seek for your own proof. Your initial example was pretty terrible. You can't make conclusions on a battle against one single unit. You may as well have said that strikers are terrible, because pound for pound, they get killed by RPGs. CWs are one of the best 'utility units'. They're tough to kill, do good health and armour damage and have a good targetting.
Bushtarion is all about using the right units in the right circumstances. Sure, if a TL player happens to stealth rush a person who only has CWs and no other lethals, the TLs will win. But that will rarely if ever be the circumstances.
 

Stargazer

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
591
I see a lot of opinions but I want proof!

Also on another topic,does anybody PB rush PoMs anymore!?

Seek for your own proof. Your initial example was pretty terrible. You can't make conclusions on a battle against one single unit. You may as well have said that strikers are terrible, because pound for pound, they get killed by RPGs. CWs are one of the best 'utility units'. They're tough to kill, do good health and armour damage and have a good targetting.
Bushtarion is all about using the right units in the right circumstances. Sure, if a TL player happens to stealth rush a person who only has CWs and no other lethals, the TLs will win. But that will rarely if ever be the circumstances.

I don't wanna seek my own proof,why I came here ball bagger
 

Cyrus

Official Helper
Community Operator
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,346
Location
Nottinghamshire
I see a lot of opinions but I want proof!

Also on another topic,does anybody PB rush PoMs anymore!?

Seek for your own proof. Your initial example was pretty terrible. You can't make conclusions on a battle against one single unit. You may as well have said that strikers are terrible, because pound for pound, they get killed by RPGs. CWs are one of the best 'utility units'. They're tough to kill, do good health and armour damage and have a good targetting.
Bushtarion is all about using the right units in the right circumstances. Sure, if a TL player happens to stealth rush a person who only has CWs and no other lethals, the TLs will win. But that will rarely if ever be the circumstances.

I don't wanna seek my own proof,why I came here ball bagger

Stargazer, are you just trying to wind the same people u,p who actually tried to explain it to you.. i mean what do you want from everyone? BR's from 5 rounds ago? there's forum threads for that

You've played loads of rounds anyway havent you? i'm currently waiting for Ashton Kutcher to come out and shout PUNKED! at us all
 

Dimitar

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
2,388
I see a lot of opinions but I want proof!

Also on another topic,does anybody PB rush PoMs anymore!?

Seek for your own proof. Your initial example was pretty terrible. You can't make conclusions on a battle against one single unit. You may as well have said that strikers are terrible, because pound for pound, they get killed by RPGs. CWs are one of the best 'utility units'. They're tough to kill, do good health and armour damage and have a good targetting.
Bushtarion is all about using the right units in the right circumstances. Sure, if a TL player happens to stealth rush a person who only has CWs and no other lethals, the TLs will win. But that will rarely if ever be the circumstances.

I don't wanna seek my own proof,why I came here ball bagger

People aren't obligated to spoonfeed you information. You know, the best players are so good, not because they're 24/7 contactable, but because they know things. That extra bit of knowledge + common sense gives them the edge.

If you want to come here and demand people tell you everything about everything, and give you solid proof, then I can't help you.

My advice to you is - don't come on forums asking people to share with you their very own, unique methods of attack planning (cheers for the good post, max), or why a unit works, when you've put the effort to only test it against one other unit in ridiculous circumstances.

Instead, you should try the ancient method of trial and error. It's how we all learned, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. It's fun working out things on your own, developing your own tactics and finding your own ways to utilise a unit or a route.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping you, or anyone, but your attitude has been pretty poor. A lot of people tried to help you, but they didn't really have to.
 

Stargazer

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
591
I appreciate peoples help like Maxs,iamsmarts even Cyrus but some people just like to make themselves look clever...

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT

Everybody could answer every question with "seek your own proof" in this thread.

Ive played robos once & my under my impression there main purpose is heavy armour..(doesnt matter if other units fire first as its like using paper to knock down a birck wall) so used mainly for killing stuff with no armour (eg SA,Vamp,Thug) that's health based-so the main unit would be TD surely as it does great health damage for its cost & armoured

So why have CW that do loads of armour damage when im gonna be looking to attack health routes?

Sorry if my attitude came across poor,think people get banter confused with attitude. My bad.
 

Max

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,015
Location
London
So why have CW that do loads of armour damage when im gonna be looking to attack health routes?

Stargazer - you are absolutely right - if it is your goal in the game to attack health based routes then you want to be massing TDs. Many people have used this tactic in the past and achieved good results with it.

However, what myself and others are considering is not just a narrow target selection. We are looking at the big picture, rather than a simplistic "solo on solo attack scenario". For example, if you are attacking an alliance and they send dragons to defend against your TDs, you'd wish you had brought some CWs along for the ride. Or if you are attacking with others in your alliance, your CWs will be able to perform late firing AD after everyone else has fired, while pure TDs would not perform to their high standard without some armour stripping.

So I would suggest that first you need to analyse what your goals are as a player this round, and then build a ratio based on those goals. If it is your goal to be the guy who crushes mass SA players - then mass TDs! Especially if that would be useful for your alliance. If you find you are getting lots of incoming from dragon players, you'll want to buy mainly CWs. If you need to help others in your alliance from getting gargoyle rushed into oblivion, consider mass shields! A stretch, I know, but it just makes the point that there are LOADS of different ways to play a route to suit your needs.

If you want a balanced route setup (most of us do by default) then the tried and tested ratio is about 3:1 CWs:TDs, mainly because against the average enemy mass TDs would just die too quickly, and you want your TDs to perform at their maximum firepower by stripping armour with the CWs first.

If you have a specific aim or target or goal for a route, let me know. Personally, I don't use unit ratios on the whole, I just buy up to meet the needs of the target I have found to attack.
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
975
Location
Oslo, Norway
In regards to CWs, they shine because they are flakked in big battles; they survive almost intact and get to do damage at a perfect time, when the majority of the lethal flak is gone, and they get to fire on the important units.. they can turn the tide in a battle. Look for a big early battle report, and even though it might look one-sided, you'll usually find that the party that has mass CWs on their side wins, no matter the amount of TLs the other side has.

In respect to planning, there's quite a lot to it. There's the matter of selecting High Value Targets, and considering which HVP the enemy will prioritize. You also need to have intel about the TZ of your targets, any UC times etc. This will give you a list of you you want to hit first. I usually plan 4 reals and 4 fakes that I know will be essential to my plan, then I assign the rest of the fakes. You also want to get a good coverage of routes on each ID. This is the basic. On top of this you can focus or spread the stealth, or fake with it. You can keep low eta units back to rush. You can thief rush players in front of the wave to force a battle. You can focus on offliners, or fake them. You can spread out on waves, but I find that it usually leaves you too weak to stay on targets they defend. You can stealth rush while you attack. You can send a wave with fakes and low eta units, which are recalled in time to return and boost the main wave comes in two ticks later. It's a lot you can do, but to plan one hit you don't have to be very imaginative. The more waves you do, the more of a mind game it becomes. You need to constantly change up your plan and patterns, so that the opposing planner will not be able to guess your way of thinking. The defenders have a huge advantage in the battle if they can pick out your real early on.
 

jamesNchina

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
587
Location
Dalian China
I've read a thousand "what about ### vs ### ?" from StarGAYzer here and read the 2 thousand answers he was given and seen him do absolutely nothing with any of the answers he was given when playing the game.
I think any further answers given to him should be; "why? you will screw up anyways" muhaha
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
UK
You have to be organised and good with time to plan. No use a plan taking you 1 hour to do. You also need people around you to prank for recalls / sending.

--

Topic: Is the LT of the hit.

LT: xx.xx
100k geo max.
All mobs same size.

Player A - A (Real),
Player B - E (Real),
Player C - K (Real),
Player D - M (Real),
Player E - A (Real),
Player F - A (Real),
Player G - A (Real),
Player H - E (Real),
Player I - E (Real),
Player J - E (Real),
Player K - K (Real),
Player L - K (Real),
Player M - K (Real),
Player N - M (Real),
Player O - M (Real),
Player P - M (Real),
Player Q - S (Real),
Player R - S (Real),
Player S - S (Real),
Player T - S (Real),


Plan from ID perspective

Id A - Player A Real Player E Real Player F Real Player G Real
Id B -
Id C -
Id D -
Id E - Player B Real Player H Real Player I Real Player J Real
Id F -
Id G -
Id H -
Id I -
Id J -
Id K - Player C Real Player K Real Player L Real Player M Real
Id L -
Id M - Player D Real Player N Real Player O Real Player P Real
Id N -
Id O -
Id P -
Id Q -
Id R -
Id S - Player Q Real Player R Real Player S Real Player T Real
Id T -


---



This is an ideal world of 20 people and even then i wouldn't hit 20 ids, prolly around 16/17 but that's how i start it if im going for a bog standard wave and cant micro manage it with rushes.

Similiar to Dachi you would then just fill the blanks with fakes 1 player at a time.

I like to use the above format because it shows the rest where the reals are and what the plan is going for so that they can make calls on recalls too.

Few little things people tend to do would be to:

* Maybe pile 6 fakes on 1 id and sacrifice one elsewhere.
* Send a 7 man fake mob to like the 3rd lowest ID. I dunno but psychologically from their angle its one of the first things they come to and it might influence their decision on what to do. As i know lesser defence planners in the past start from the top and work their way down...
* Throw the poms on a seperate ID all together.
* Throw bikers elsewhere to stop guru.
* Holding back a thief player is so effective.

You do also need to know what you're up against. **** hit us in waves this round with Tick 1,2,3 covered over not that many IDS. Usually it wouldnt be so hard to defend against as you'd last tick the inc. But when we had ninjas and sorcs, it made for a very hard time risking if the first one was fake or not. The advantage of their attacks is that they could see where the reals were from leaving a small 4m flak mob there. It was smart planning. A standard attack as above would have been riskier.

Before everyone sends you should have the IRC channel noticed 1/2 times on the tick people are sending and a mass mail. Keep it consistent on how you nudge people imo.

On recalls, you want to have a list like:

Stay on: A,F,G,H,S,T
Stay for now but be around: J,K,O
Recall EOT: B,C,D,E,L,M,N,P,Q,R

Mass mailed at the end of eta 1.
When it gets to attacking for 1/2 the planner should already be planning the next wave. That plan then wants to be up 20-30 minutes later to give notice to people, especially those on their phone.
 

Martin

Garden Designer
Super Moderator
Community Operator
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
970
Location
England
There are loads of ways to plan, you've got to find out what works best for you. The first attack you should spread yourself thinnest (hitting as many IDs as possible) as your opponent will find it hardest to react and defend and the general rule of thumb is that more targets = harder to organise, on defence. You should also attack as an alliance when you can continue to resend. IF you're attacking then activity is paramount, if you can't keep your momentum up then don't bother starting. You can also split troops so other people help other people land, the below method allows people to attack using 5 mobs (covering more IDs and harder to defend). Also offering def-checkers a tick ahead using basics so you can see who has units home. You are able to send out 5 mobs to attack because one of your mobs will be ETA 1 back. It's a rough plan and obviously you need to use flak to buffer mobs and when you send your LETs you need to use flak to fake and buffer your mobs. Sending these units late has benefits because:

1. You can recall one mob and it will be back sooner because Geos don't slow you down (obviously with ETA 5 units this doesn't work).
2. If gives your opponents less time to do mob notes or to work out what is where, and in wars every tick is vital.
3. You can just use Geo mobs to stay on targets to check def if you're being 2nd ticked or 3rd ticked.


::Tick 1:: ETA 5

Martin - ID 1 (100k Geos only)
Twigley - ID 2 (100k Geos only)
Dachi - ID 3 (100k Geos only)


::Tick 2:: ETA 4

Martin - ID 2 (10mil Terrors)
Twigley -
Dachi - ID 3 (10mil Strikers)


::Tick 3:: ETA 3

Martin
Twigley ID 1 - (15mil Petrols)
Dachi


::Tick 4:: ETA 1

Martin - ID 4 (1 Hippy and 1 Yob)
Twigley - ID 5 (1 Hippy and 1 Yob)
Dachi - ID 6 (1 Hippy and 1 Yob)


The psychology behind an attack is vital, if I know someone will rage quit then they will lose land, or an organiser will be intel spammed to keep giving them news, or mobs sent or resent. Some people I will get to send mobs in a certain order (because most often people send their real mobs first).
A lot of this stuff isn't noticed when planning and often makes no difference, but one little thing can cause your enemy to stay where they'll die or to mis-judge what is attacking them which can swing battle.

Obviously you can utilize rushes but I'd do that in the second/later waves so you know who is offline. Obviously if you know someone's ID you will know if you have to wake them up, so you can do it just to be annoying.
Knowing your opponent's brain and how they work leads to different decisions than just matching IDs with hacks and your units. You might even see a Sorc player and hit him with a PoM, so you know he'll stay home but you fake it, or you boost late with Hools (ETA 1) because the Sorc player will stay at home but the Hools make his units useless against the PoM. Try and think how you'd defend against your own attack and tweak it to make it more difficult.

:)
 

edd

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
670
Location
Surrey, UK
Execution is very important as well.

Martin mentioned that every tick counts in alliance waves and something we did really well last round, which i think Dachi made us do, was to send eot. We could have most of Adra's 60+ mobs labelled by the time they hit eta 4 whereas we launched all our mobs as late as possible. If we exclude Leeroy I think over 95% of our mobs were launched in the last minute of a tick on all the attacks we did.

Another thing is calling recalls. There were a few incidents I can think of last round where i made calls within 2 minutes of the tick, sometimes even later. At this point you are better off staying and dying together. There was a wave Max organised and then disappeared and we were left at af3 with no idea what was going on and staying on all our reals (which worked somehow).

It's certainly not easy so establishing a system that becomes second nature is vital.
 
Last edited:

'Tiger'

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
1,285
Location
UK
What is the best ratio for Striker:Apache?

Then Striker:Apache:Marine?
 
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