• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Alternatives to Gardening (I.e more appealing forms of production)

Dark_Angel

Landscape Designer
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Looking over the suggestions forums lately, gardening seems like one of the most unpopular aspects of the game.

I think I'd generally agree with this - It is extremely hard to market the game when you have to explain you earn money for massive wars through selling various plants/trees etc.

For existing players this is something that we can all look beyond quite easily - Its just a balanced way to make money based on land, which you acquire by doing well. For new players, though, it isn't the most exciting concept.

This isn't really about what you, personally, want. I don't mind the farming element, but I accept it isn't a very appealing factor when trying to market the game. That is a problem.

What possible alternatives are there?

I have two possible ideas:

1.) Do a straightforward swap
of the current Tree, Bush, Plants, Grass to something like:


  • Oil -> (Refined to Petrol)
  • Ores -> (Refined to Precious Metals)
  • Uranium -> (Nuclear Energy (in Units))
  • Sand -> (Glass)

Whereby land stolen is suitable only for one of the above. The current process of "cultivating" land could be replaced by having to "fill" this land with the appropriate "facilities". (Or removed altogether)

Rather than your raw resources being "grown" into their final selling state, they are "manufactured". (We could leave this as being possible in a single tick, or have it spread out).

This change would obviously require the replacement of Gardeners and Harvesters.

Gardeners -> "Civilian Employees"
Harvesters -> "Engineers"


Civilian Employees could serve a similar purpose to gardeners atm. They could be involved in the "cultivation/making ready" of facilities to make use of new land, as well as still being available as an option to flak.

Engineers would be required to carry out the production of raw resources.

(Civilian employees would also fulfill the "Refining" function that gardeners currently carry out in "growing" seeds) You are told how many employees you need to maximize production from your land, having to guess this is and always has been a joke for new players.

! - This particular idea does present the problem of the weather, particularly "winter" no longer having a strategic impact on gameplay. I see no reason, though, why weather can't still impact on gameplay (if this is still thought of as desirable). Winter, storms, tornadoes, snow - All still have a massive impact on production. These things make manufacturing more difficult, logistics harder. Its more difficult to transport goods in bad conditions. (Thus bad weather and winter as a realistic environmental factor is still a strong possibility.)

---

2.) Rather than having 4 individual resources, have land that is suitable for various areas of manufacturing. For example:


  • Agriculture
  • Business
  • Oilfields
  • Health Care
Instead of producing raw materials, your land is designated for the use of any of these 4 areas. The areas yield straight income that you must "Transfer" to your own personal account. (i.e your funds) This would replace the currently delay in having to "grow" your funds of X number of ticks. Rather, a transfer would take place. (If people feel we need a delay between what you have accumulated and what you should have to spend, transfer of the funds could easily be designed to take X number of ticks.)


The benefit of the second idea is removing the "resource" element of the game, which I know some people find a bit fiddly.


-

This is, for the most part, an aesthetic change. It isn't massively changing the mechanics of the game - I'm just trying to help make the game appeal to a wider audience.
 
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Dimitar

Landscape Designer
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
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I think stealing land is the most obscene concept I've ever seen (it was the most offputting part of the game when I started to play). So when replacing the gardening part we should also think of a way to replace acres.

I like DA's first suggestion, and maybe we can have some sort of unit replacing geos, that instead of 'stealing land' can 'occupy mines'
 

Steve_God

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Personally, 'back in the day', there was something that appealed to be about Bushtarion about it being vaigely more realistic and different compared to every other similar 'space war' game that was simply 'collecting planets/androids/ore/crystals/etc...' that were all sci-fi based stuff.

To keep Bush different from the masses of those games, I would suggest to keep away from the space/sci-fi theme.
Not sure what would be better, but that's my initial thoughts :)
 

edd

Tree Surgeon
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To me this is right at the heart of bush rather than some aesthetic thing, I'd consider this as important to bush being bush as the routes or the battle mechanism. I think this is a change that would change the game from bushtarion.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
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Apr 22, 2009
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The land stealing concept is unique to this game, really. I think changing the resources is a good change that isn't too complicated (simple name-changing), and the addition of a harvester/engineer calculator for all is a fantastic idea. It's a falling point for alot of new starters as they have no idea what does what and how many of whatever they need to just get the job done.

Minimising the complications, and a small change-around in names is all that is really needed in the 'change' process. What we have to keep in mind is that if we remove vital core concepts of this game, we may as well simply all chip ideas in for a totally new game - Which defies the point of all wanting someone to buy this game, IMO.
 

Dark_Angel

Landscape Designer
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Personally, 'back in the day', there was something that appealed to be about Bushtarion about it being vaigely more realistic and different compared to every other similar 'space war' game that was simply 'collecting planets/androids/ore/crystals/etc...' that were all sci-fi based stuff.

To keep Bush different from the masses of those games, I would suggest to keep away from the space/sci-fi theme.
Not sure what would be better, but that's my initial thoughts :)

I'm with you Steve, I'm not suggesting anything space-agey though, and I agree this should be avoided.

My replacements specifically are all modern day resources, oil for petrol/plastics, uranium for nuclear power, sand for glass.

Gardening just doesn't "sound" very good, to most potential new players. It doesn't make a great deal of sense that you fund massive wars with the proceeds from (what is in essence) a gardening shop.

I'm just looking to make a few simple changes to make the game sound a bit more appealing - by allowing people to deal with modern day resources.

-

To me this is right at the heart of bush rather than some aesthetic thing, I'd consider this as important to bush being bush as the routes or the battle mechanism. I think this is a change that would change the game from bushtarion.

I see where you're coming from edd but tbh this type of sentimentality is only going to hold the game back. Yes a lot of existing players have a soft spot for the classic "Tree, Bush, Plants, Grass" way of doing things. But from a marketing point of view, a game that has its roots (no pun intended) in gardening is really quite difficult to sell.

I know I, personally, would struggle to recommend Bush to a friend because although I enjoy the game - you have a hard time making it sound good when you open your pitch with "You grow trees to make money".
 

Ogluk

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I'm very supportive of the idea of basically name changing the acre types and units involved with land work, gards/harvs/tractors/combines/geos/wheelies etc

the 'farming' aspect of the game has ALWAYS been a large deterrent to new players, heck I gave a somewhat jokey presentation to a bunch of guys on my course about the game and yeah, the farming aspect got giggles, the rest of the game they found somewhat interesting, but the farming is such a big off-putter that yeah, CHANGE IT! xD
 

Max

Garden Designer
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Dec 14, 2007
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I like the idea of using much more realistic resource names. You wouldn't lose that much by changing it to be honest, and it's less of a put-off.

I don't even think the seasonal weather dependence would be a big problem. Workers can only work in the day-time effectively, so it still makes sense that you can only mature these resources during the day.

But seasonal dependence would have to go from the resource point of view. It's worth keeping for the fantasy routes ofc, even though I've yet to spot a difference between Vampires firing during the day and during a stormy night...
 

LuckySports

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Nonya
Change it from plants, and you should change the name. :p Plants are a staple in the game's origin.. changing that is a pretty big change, even if it is just aesthetics.


With that sad, I think its necessary.. A lot of people are short-sighted and won't be able to look past the farming aspect.. Its a bit complicated for your average gamer. Perhaps you could build a few things into the game, such as a harvester calc (Engineer?), or something like NBS that changes its color when you are low on them.

Something simple, that makes things easier for your average player. I know a lot of folks are against making the game easier, but the learning curve has driven a lot of potential new players away.. We need to bend it a bit.
 

CFalcon

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At the very least there's no reason why there can't be an indicator on Overview or in Maintenance of how many harvesters you need. Hiding that information really just punishes beginners and mildly annoys veterans.
 

tobapopalos

Hydroponics Developer
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Dec 14, 2007
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One thing to keep in mind - if we get rid of tree/bush/flower/grass why is the game called bushtarion?


At the very least there's no reason why there can't be an indicator on Overview or in Maintenance of how many harvesters you need. Hiding that information really just punishes beginners and mildly annoys veterans.

This is absolutely true.

I think we should keep the land-stealing aspect, and keep the mechanics behind growth the same. Anything more than name-changing will change the identity of the game imo.

Personally I would be upset to see tree/bush/flower/grass go because when I started playing I found it amusing. Selling flowers to buy psychopathic androids to crush your enemies. But I think it's a change which has to be made if this game is going to attract more than the odd oddun.
 

Davs

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One thing to keep in mind - if we get rid of tree/bush/flower/grass why is the game called bushtarion?

Winning point wins.

The whole point of the game is that it's a ludicrously ott war between rival gardening companies. Unless I've misinterpreted your suggestion, all you've really suggested is renaming what we already have to something that no longer makes any sense with the theme of the game...
 

Alvestein

Garden Designer
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Dec 15, 2007
Messages
809
Dimitar - sentimentality.

On the note of the name of bushtarion , guess it could be like a funny inside joke for those who know the origin of it?
 

Yochoko

Head Gardener
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
314
the mighty booshtarion

boobtarion*

i'd love

very much

:3

on topic: well, i don't really see how the name change can attract more people or it matters for any new players to play the game. and changing the gardening to something else that the weather willl affect its production? wut?
 

Yochoko

Head Gardener
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
314
then, it sounds like another new game we are wanting. doesn't sound like a 'change' to me. :<
 
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