Seed Thief/Plant Thief idea

[Walking_Death]

My suggestion is to make them ETA 4, or ETA 3. It would make seed/plant raids on the inactive a bit more frequent, and make the units themselves a bit more useful and versatile. They don't steal land, and they are quite pricey for being ETA 5.

It would make the game more fun in my opinion, and speed things up a little.
Also, it would allow you reimburse yourself in one attack, assuming everything goes according to plan, and do it even if you have seed thieves.

I have math to back this all up. So yeah.

 

[timtadams]

disagree

Seed thieves are good enough. When i applied myself, i stole over a trillion worth of seeds in one round. They were certainly worth it.

 

[Davs]

I have math to back this all up. So yeah.

Given the fact that you don't intend to change any of their stats other than eta, the only maths you've used is that 3 and 4 are both less than 5. Well done.

 

[Alvestein]

I have math to back this all up. So yeah.

Given the fact that you don't intend to change any of their stats other than eta, the only maths you've used is that 3 and 4 are both less than 5. Well done.

lol pwnt!

 

[Polo]

My suggestion is to make them ETA 4, or ETA 3. It would make seed/plant raids on the inactive a bit more frequent, and make the units themselves a bit more useful and versatile. They don't steal land, and they are quite pricey for being ETA 5.

It would make the game more fun in my opinion, and speed things up a little.
Also, it would allow you reimburse yourself in one attack, assuming everything goes according to plan, and do it even if you have seed thieves.

I have math to back this all up. So yeah.

Seed Thieves: no. Plant Thieves/Money Launderers: possibly, it would make them more useful.

 

[Walking_Death]

I have math to back this all up. So yeah.

Given the fact that you don't intend to change any of their stats other than eta, the only maths you've used is that 3 and 4 are both less than 5. Well done.

lol pwnt!

the math is to back up that they usually won't steal their worth in one hit (even plant thieves). The way I see them being used is: Seed thieves attack idle players, pure seed thief almost mobs, while plant thieves would more be sent with a main force. Seed thieves however are the same ETA, yet they only steal seeds, not land. IMO, the change from ETA 5 to 3 or 4 would let them be sent with bounty mobs without hindering them, as well as make seed raids less time consuming. For 1 raid, assuming they're 40%, takes over 2 hours. In my opinion, it shouldn't take just as long to steal seeds/plants as it does to steal land.

Also, you could add in a section on the portals . "Biggest Seed Whore" or "Most Funds Destroyed" etc.

 

[Dax]

the math is to back up that they usually won't steal their worth in one hit (even plant thieves). The way I see them being used is: Seed thieves attack idle players, pure seed thief almost mobs, while plant thieves would more be sent with a main force. Seed thieves however are the same ETA, yet they only steal seeds, not land. IMO, the change from ETA 5 to 3 or 4 would let them be sent with bounty mobs without hindering them, as well as make seed raids less time consuming. For 1 raid, assuming they're 40%, takes over 2 hours. In my opinion, it shouldn't take just as long to steal seeds/plants as it does to steal land.

Also, you could add in a section on the portals . "Biggest Seed Whore" or "Most Funds Destroyed" etc.

I personally believe there are enough pointless statistics to get rank 1 in, why add another?
But more on topic, Seed Thieves don't need altering, and nor do their price. The reason I say this is I use them for Geo flak when I get to a high enough rank. They serve two purposes then; Help Geos get through to steal land, and if they get through, you get a nice seed bonus too.
Plant Thieves and Launderers are pretty much utterly pointless. I would rather remove them from the game entirely, than add anything else to them.

 

[Alvestein]

i still disagree. ive seen people who find plenty of inactive seed farms and just farming trillions worth of seeds off them till the end of the round

 

[Davs]

the change from ETA 5 to 3 or 4 would let them be sent with bounty mobs without hindering them

Last time I checked, you get more bounty for sending at ETA 5 than at ETA 3 or 4. For this reason I still see no need for change. I often find myself attacking purely for bounty or l/f and with no intention of gaining land, therefore I won't send geos on those attacks. Some routes (thug for example) have no ETA 5 lethals, so the bounty would get reduced. Having something like seed thieves as ETA 5 means that I can send an eta 5 mob, gain max bounty for the attack, not gain any land (which is something I often aim for) and actually gain something extra as well.

 

[Dimitar]

As Poppo mentioned, this would be only good for money launderers/plant thieves. But as **** as they are, they will need to be eta 1 or 2 to be actually useful

 

[Alvestein]

who saves in plants anyway? the only way i could see them being used is if you timed it so that the person planted on same tick plant launderers fired and that scenario is just retarded

 

[Walking_Death]

the change from ETA 5 to 3 or 4 would let them be sent with bounty mobs without hindering them

Last time I checked, you get more bounty for sending at ETA 5 than at ETA 3 or 4. For this reason I still see no need for change. I often find myself attacking purely for bounty or l/f and with no intention of gaining land, therefore I won't send geos on those attacks. Some routes (thug for example) have no ETA 5 lethals, so the bounty would get reduced. Having something like seed thieves as ETA 5 means that I can send an eta 5 mob, gain max bounty for the attack, not gain any land (which is something I often aim for) and actually gain something extra as well.

so my suggestion is to make it that you can send lighter mobs and include seedies/plant thieves.

 

[Polo]

As Poppo mentioned, this would be only good for money launderers/plant thieves. But as **** as they are, they will need to be eta 1 or 2 to be actually useful

Plant Thieves should be able to steal planted plants (much like Arsonists used to be able to destroy them). That way you'd be guaranteed something even if it wasn't much. Money Launderers are useful but as you don't gain anything from it, people just choose Seed Thieves instead.

 

[Walking_Death]

As Poppo mentioned, this would be only good for money launderers/plant thieves. But as **** as they are, they will need to be eta 1 or 2 to be actually useful

Plant Thieves should be able to steal planted plants (much like Arsonists used to be able to destroy them). That way you'd be guaranteed something even if it wasn't much. Money Launderers are useful but as you don't gain anything from it, people just choose Seed Thieves instead.

That could work as well, but the numbers that I have say even then it's kinda iffy. Here they are. Beware text wall.

Your average player is about 35% tree, 40% bush, and 25% mix of grass/flower. Grass produces a LOT of seeds (which are grown into a lot of plants). Grass by itself will probably constitute about 50% of your grab on average.

Lets look at the numbers. Plant thieves will take 300 plants. Lets say the current player is 30% tree, 45% bush, 10% flower, 15% grass. Now lets say they are at 1000 acres.

300 tree acres
450 bush acres
100 flower acres
150 grass acres.

Assuming the values on harvesters needed to tend each type is correct in the manual, I did calculations. I used a chart that shows how much money each acre will make per season, and the average in the year. I based the numbers upon those averages. I did not make mistakes such as forgetting to divide by 20. These are the numbers I came up with of how many seeds (and since seeds = plants, plants) each acre will make on a "season-less" tick, in which the annual averages are used.

483.75 tree seeds/acre
1,725 bush seeds/acre
5,340 flower seeds/acre
11,310 grass seeds/acre

now I'll multiply the numbers

145,125 trees seeds
776,250 bush seeds
534,000 flower seeds
1,696,500 grass seeds

So, to recap:
Assuming your target has 1000 acres, split up as 300 tree, 450 bush, 100 flower, and 150 grass, they will make 145k tree seeds, 776k bush seeds, 534k flower seeds, 1.7m grass seeds. Lets assume you went plant thieves and sent the correct amount of them. Even after the planting process, your thieves will walk away with about 55% grass. Some more math shows the issue here...

3,151,875

Per plant thief, you get get approx 12 trees, 72 bush, 48 flower, 168 grass on the average player. That will add up to about £21,420 on a £30,000 unit. These are just my trials, of course, but the message that its not only possible, but also quite likely that you won't reimburse yourself on 1 attack. Seed thieves would only get 1/3 of that, which I find to be quite too low, even though they usually attack inactives, etc and will be able to live through multiple raids if you do things correctly. Of course these are simply my opinions, and the numbers are what I use to back it up.

 

[Dimitar]

I just read that and I think it's stupid.

lol, kidding. Didn't read it. Too long.

PS: Still think it's stupid though

 

[Walking_Death]

I just read that and I think it's stupid.

lol, kidding. Didn't read it. Too long.

PS: Still think it's stupid though

that's because your existence is worthless. Would you like me to make it into a size that you can read without your brain *****ing about having to leave hibernation?

 

[Dimitar]

Yes, please.

Also.

If seed/plan thieves could steal their own worth in a single attack, they'd end up giving you free score. Making them steal more would be horrible. Making them low ETA will be as horrible. Well, plant thieves could use a boost, since they're really useless at the moment, but seed thieves are the most popular choice for a reason. And that reason is their pure awesomeness.

Also.

If an "average" player has 1k acres you can only steal up to 150 with geos. You would need at least 1,500 geos do to so. Those cost exactly 90,000,000. 150 acres would cost a lot more than that. This means geos would steal a few times more than they're worth. If I managed to follow your train of thought, geos should be eta 9.

 

[Dax]

Yes, please.
If I managed to follow your train of thought, geos should be eta 9.

Kudos on the logic!

 

[No-Dachi]

Plant Thieves should be able to steal planted plants (much like Arsonists used to be able to destroy them). That way you'd be guaranteed something even if it wasn't much. Money Launderers are useful but as you don't gain anything from it, people just choose Seed Thieves instead.

This, and make them eta 3 so they can be used with low eta attacks on hostile alliances - offering another way of crippling your enemy - a way that relies on cunning as well and not just brute "everyone attack ID X this tick!!!!" strength.

Per plant thief, you get get approx 12 trees, 72 bush, 48 flower, 168 grass on the average player. That will add up to about £21,420 on a £30,000 unit. These are just my trials, of course, but the message that its not only possible, but also quite likely that you won't reimburse yourself on 1 attack. Seed thieves would only get 1/3 of that, which I find to be quite too low, even though they usually attack inactives, etc and will be able to live through multiple raids if you do things correctly. Of course these are simply my opinions, and the numbers are what I use to back it up.

The reason you will need a few sucessfull hits for these units to make a profit (in terms of cash), is to balance it. The nature of these units' abilities can easily make for an imbalance if they are made too strong. The other point here is the total output of your attack - your equation only considered your side of the story, wheras somewhere out there, there's your enemy who just lost the amount of plants/seeds you stole, doubling the effect.

I'm not saying they are tweaked perfectly, but they are close to what we want them to be: another way of hurting your opponent, making sure he cannot stay safe by hiding his cash in seeds, plants or money - as well as another tweak to your overall strategy. What we don't want these to be is so strong and efficient that it is possible to completely lock down another player by constantly stealing all his seeds/plants and killing his money. There is a theoretical possibility to do that now, but it will require you to invest so heavily into these units that you are left wide open in your own defences.

That said, I agree with your initial post of lowering their ETAs, except on the seed thiefs, but I felt a need to explain why things are as they are.

 

[Iamsmart]

NO-DACHIIIIIIIIIII

i dont know from where, but i know u.