Leader
- Thread starter Nitrous
- Start date
DarkSider
Tree Surgeon
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 796
Re: Leader
If your members go in hell and back with a smile on their face because you ask to means you're a good leader.
But qualities .. i'd say active, trustworthy, ability to take fast decisions and show confidence .. pretty much leader qualities in rl while respecting your team since unlike rl they don't have to fear beeing firead
If your members go in hell and back with a smile on their face because you ask to means you're a good leader.
But qualities .. i'd say active, trustworthy, ability to take fast decisions and show confidence .. pretty much leader qualities in rl while respecting your team since unlike rl they don't have to fear beeing firead
Yeadon
Harvester
Re: Leader
Hmm
They will not just make descisions on what they think is right. Instead they will listen to what the alliance has to say and give everybody a say in what goes on.
Like DS said they would need to be active as sometimes when your leader is idle/afk for a long amount of time things can go wrong and if the leader is not around to calm things down or defuse the situation people can end up leaving/the alliance folding.
Dont set too many rules and do not be too heavy with what you expect of your guys to achieve. Sometimes better to let them play to the style they are good at & at there own growth pace.
Thats how i would see it but im not the best for leadership but do like to have my say etc...
Maybe one of the leaders could come forward and give us their views on how to run an alliance & how they run their own...
Hmm
They will not just make descisions on what they think is right. Instead they will listen to what the alliance has to say and give everybody a say in what goes on.
Like DS said they would need to be active as sometimes when your leader is idle/afk for a long amount of time things can go wrong and if the leader is not around to calm things down or defuse the situation people can end up leaving/the alliance folding.
Dont set too many rules and do not be too heavy with what you expect of your guys to achieve. Sometimes better to let them play to the style they are good at & at there own growth pace.
Thats how i would see it but im not the best for leadership but do like to have my say etc...
Maybe one of the leaders could come forward and give us their views on how to run an alliance & how they run their own...
Illumination
Head Gardener
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2007
- Messages
- 442
Re: Leader
I have played under many leaders, but there are two that stand out as quality. They were both extremely different, but they had one thing in common, they motivated the alliance and made people want to play. Nothing kills an alliance like inactivity- so you have to make it fun to be online. One leader was a die hard, more of a dictator. She was cut-throat and go for the win. We were so competitive that it was just great The other leader was quite the opposite. Very laid back and do-what-you-can type style, but defend at all costs. People wanted to be online in that alliance because he was so nice and personable..more of a friendly than comptetive alliance.
Both alliances finished top 5, the competitive leader took us to a win, the other just to lots of fun at rank 5 Both were respectful finishes and both successful rounds in my opinion.
I agree that the leader must have an insane level of activity, but I also think that they have to have a way to motivate their team..it has to be fun, its a game and no one gets paid to be here...so they have to want to be
I have played under many leaders, but there are two that stand out as quality. They were both extremely different, but they had one thing in common, they motivated the alliance and made people want to play. Nothing kills an alliance like inactivity- so you have to make it fun to be online. One leader was a die hard, more of a dictator. She was cut-throat and go for the win. We were so competitive that it was just great
The other leader was quite the opposite. Very laid back and do-what-you-can type style, but defend at all costs. People wanted to be online in that alliance because he was so nice and personable..more of a friendly than comptetive alliance.Both alliances finished top 5, the competitive leader took us to a win, the other just to lots of fun at rank 5
Both were respectful finishes and both successful rounds in my opinion.I agree that the leader must have an insane level of activity, but I also think that they have to have a way to motivate their team..it has to be fun, its a game and no one gets paid to be here...so they have to want to be
Re: Leader
For me, a good leader must have
1)Certain Reputation - I wont bother to spent 3 month to play under a leader which i never hear of
2)Activity/Contactable - Why would I bother to be active/contactable, if my leader aren`t active/contactable himself
3)Knowledge/Experience - How does the leader lead the ally to victory if they dunno the game inside out, must be able to organise ally attack/mass defend plan
4)Wise decision/Politician - Often the ally i in could decide to give up chance of winning just to stop another ally from winning, a worthy leader shouldn`t let his personal grudge affect his decision and should choose the best path for his ally to take
5)Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds
6)Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with
Conclusion, best leader so far i played with should be Blackwolf
For me, a good leader must have
1)Certain Reputation - I wont bother to spent 3 month to play under a leader which i never hear of
2)Activity/Contactable - Why would I bother to be active/contactable, if my leader aren`t active/contactable himself
3)Knowledge/Experience - How does the leader lead the ally to victory if they dunno the game inside out, must be able to organise ally attack/mass defend plan
4)Wise decision/Politician - Often the ally i in could decide to give up chance of winning just to stop another ally from winning, a worthy leader shouldn`t let his personal grudge affect his decision and should choose the best path for his ally to take
5)Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds
6)Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with
Conclusion, best leader so far i played with should be Blackwolf
Re: Leader
you sure blackwolf? he doesnt do this:
Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds
Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with
you sure blackwolf? he doesnt do this:
Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds
Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with
Subdivisions
Harvester
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 109
Re: Leader
A good leader would hire Illumination, since she's good at keeping morale and handling all of the dirty work....or at least that's how it worked as I remember
A good leader would hire Illumination, since she's good at keeping morale and handling all of the dirty work....or at least that's how it worked as I remember
Garrett
Landscape Designer
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,872
Re: Leader
nah he's trying to take a shot at me.
everyone would send me private messages about this player and that player and what are our plans to fix this and that, so rather than respond to 100 messages I publicly posted a couple different times, specific deficiencies that people had within the alliance. These small items were mostly non-issues, but add them all together and that's why we had difficulties at spots. He wasn't happy that I included him in the criticism. When I gave specific examples, he got mad and quit. I didn't accuse him of scorequeening or anything, he read that into it. Speaking of communication, which is the one thing that initially I pointed out, he wasn't great at it. I never knew what he was up to most of the time. So I said - hey i could get a little more feedback so I know what you are up to and he went into his tirade about this and that. I corrected him and cited examples and the rest is history.
Obviously he's still sore about it. I've even tried apologizing that we had a falling out, but he's a guy who's never wrong. So c'est la vie. Most of my group said they would like to play with me again and the rest of them stuck with me so w/e.
Every alliance is going to have some pains. 99% of the time I was laid back and everything was cool. Only 'raised my voice' when people were going on about things. Everytime we got razed to 0, I posted positive messages and had the officers keeping up morale as well. It's up to the individual player on how adult they are going to handle the situation, whether leader or not.
Cyrus said:
nah he's trying to take a shot at me.
everyone would send me private messages about this player and that player and what are our plans to fix this and that, so rather than respond to 100 messages I publicly posted a couple different times, specific deficiencies that people had within the alliance. These small items were mostly non-issues, but add them all together and that's why we had difficulties at spots. He wasn't happy that I included him in the criticism. When I gave specific examples, he got mad and quit. I didn't accuse him of scorequeening or anything, he read that into it. Speaking of communication, which is the one thing that initially I pointed out, he wasn't great at it. I never knew what he was up to most of the time. So I said - hey i could get a little more feedback so I know what you are up to and he went into his tirade about this and that. I corrected him and cited examples and the rest is history.
Obviously he's still sore about it. I've even tried apologizing that we had a falling out, but he's a guy who's never wrong. So c'est la vie. Most of my group said they would like to play with me again and the rest of them stuck with me so w/e.
Every alliance is going to have some pains. 99% of the time I was laid back and everything was cool. Only 'raised my voice' when people were going on about things. Everytime we got razed to 0, I posted positive messages and had the officers keeping up morale as well. It's up to the individual player on how adult they are going to handle the situation, whether leader or not.
Re: Leader
1) diplomatic, A leader has to be diplomatic, you have 18 or 20 people in an alliance all with different personalities and different points of view, you have to listen to them all and then decide what you think is best for the alliance sometimes you will be right and sometimes you will be wrong but in either situation you will have people complaining because you didnt do it the way they wanted
2) patience, You need patience so you dont kill your members or yourself.
3) Have to draw the line on how much hassle you are going to accept (see part 1).
4) have officers you trust fully.
5) heart - you have to believe in your alliance and its members and care if you win or lose (once you lose heart you have lost and might as well quit as leader)
6) delegate - know your members and who is good at what, delegating alos shows trust in them.
7) never give Athena CO
Btw these arent in any order of importance just as i think of them, will add more later
1) diplomatic, A leader has to be diplomatic, you have 18 or 20 people in an alliance all with different personalities and different points of view, you have to listen to them all and then decide what you think is best for the alliance sometimes you will be right and sometimes you will be wrong but in either situation you will have people complaining because you didnt do it the way they wanted
2) patience, You need patience so you dont kill your members or yourself.
3) Have to draw the line on how much hassle you are going to accept (see part 1).
4) have officers you trust fully.
5) heart - you have to believe in your alliance and its members and care if you win or lose (once you lose heart you have lost and might as well quit as leader)
6) delegate - know your members and who is good at what, delegating alos shows trust in them.
7) never give Athena CO
Btw these arent in any order of importance just as i think of them, will add more later
Re: Leader
Lol, so you also know i taking at you, you did post that i am online and not yet defending which mean the same as scorequeen, this is the biggest humilation in my bush career and being false accused. I bet there are people in retarted to VOW for me against this accuse. How about i say you and hg login for each other to send away since nobody know? How you feel about it?
As a leader, why not ask yourself why you keep suiciding in ally attack by sending 1 tick early and organised suicide defend instead than blaming member when time go wrong. As a member, you jumped ship when ally are losing, and you expect us to give you respect as a leader? I only been in Retarted as Martin invite and not you, you doesnt worthy to be my leader at all.
Garrett said:
Lol, so you also know i taking at you, you did post that i am online and not yet defending which mean the same as scorequeen, this is the biggest humilation in my bush career and being false accused. I bet there are people in retarted to VOW for me against this accuse. How about i say you and hg login for each other to send away since nobody know? How you feel about it?
As a leader, why not ask yourself why you keep suiciding in ally attack by sending 1 tick early and organised suicide defend instead than blaming member when time go wrong. As a member, you jumped ship when ally are losing, and you expect us to give you respect as a leader? I only been in Retarted as Martin invite and not you, you doesnt worthy to be my leader at all.
Garrett
Landscape Designer
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,872
Re: Leader
It's your right to say what you want. I'm not going to get mad over that.
I only posted that you've been online and not defending at times, AFTER you blew up which was after I said you could do more on the communication front. Besides there were times ESPECIALLY early on where you were only concerned with getting land and cba to send a fake single unit since you were SO. Losing you was losing a vaulable member and asset, but you were tempermental and unstable. Thus your inability to take _any_ criticism.
Martin may have asked you in, but I was the leader. You never communicated with me, and as such, honestly you didn't deserve to be in my alliance since you weren't going to be a team player with me at the helm. If you weren't ready to recognize that I was leader, then you should have never joined which makes it your fault for your own failures from the moment go.
As far as the other round you mentioned:
I left Rena sure. I didn't leave cuz we got attacked, I left because of peoples attitudes. Yours, Zaheen's, Wacked, Samuel's, etc etc etc. I'm not going to stay where I'm not having fun (not to mention when I left the ally was rank 1 ally points... so uh whatever). I went solo and was later picked up by SOTB.
cityguy said:
It's your right to say what you want. I'm not going to get mad over that.
I only posted that you've been online and not defending at times, AFTER you blew up which was after I said you could do more on the communication front. Besides there were times ESPECIALLY early on where you were only concerned with getting land and cba to send a fake single unit since you were SO. Losing you was losing a vaulable member and asset, but you were tempermental and unstable. Thus your inability to take _any_ criticism.
Martin may have asked you in, but I was the leader. You never communicated with me, and as such, honestly you didn't deserve to be in my alliance since you weren't going to be a team player with me at the helm. If you weren't ready to recognize that I was leader, then you should have never joined which makes it your fault for your own failures from the moment go.
As far as the other round you mentioned:
I left Rena sure. I didn't leave cuz we got attacked, I left because of peoples attitudes. Yours, Zaheen's, Wacked, Samuel's, etc etc etc. I'm not going to stay where I'm not having fun (not to mention when I left the ally was rank 1 ally points... so uh whatever). I went solo and was later picked up by SOTB.
willymchilybily
Landscape Designer
Re: Leader
having never been a leader i dont think i can be very helpful.. but i can say. guys you two arguing about whats gone on b4.....
is a WASTE OF TIME AND THIS THREAD!.... get over it. we all started some where. we all made mistakes. theres a whole thread on it in bushtarion discussions.
moving on:
I know when gadfly was my leader, i was still a nooob. and what helped me, like angela said, was his
patients. he painstakingly explained how things worked. even if it was a little different back then. he knew what my route was capable of and what he would like me to do with it. (i htink at the time was get bikers done quick to take down siers, but as it happened someone beat me to it)
you will often have to show people something to be true if they are stubborn. it took me ages to show some people in irc, few rounds ago now, that what they were beliving (the internal workings of the game) was wrong to the reality. you need to be sure in yourself of how everything works. and just be patient with those that are wrong new or arrogant.
also moral is good. jokes sections. lots of contacts. a good allaince will make sure everyone is using irc. and a good coms/military officer.
terrakan was gadflys at one stage. he always knew what he was doing. seemed to be able to organise well. so just pick people you get on well with. and that know the game.
having never been a leader i dont think i can be very helpful.. but i can say. guys you two arguing about whats gone on b4.....
is a WASTE OF TIME AND THIS THREAD!.... get over it. we all started some where. we all made mistakes. theres a whole thread on it in bushtarion discussions.
moving on:
I know when gadfly was my leader, i was still a nooob. and what helped me, like angela said, was his
patients. he painstakingly explained how things worked. even if it was a little different back then. he knew what my route was capable of and what he would like me to do with it. (i htink at the time was get bikers done quick to take down siers, but as it happened someone beat me to it
)you will often have to show people something to be true if they are stubborn. it took me ages to show some people in irc, few rounds ago now, that what they were beliving (the internal workings of the game) was wrong to the reality. you need to be sure in yourself of how everything works. and just be patient with those that are wrong new or arrogant.
also moral is good. jokes sections. lots of contacts. a good allaince will make sure everyone is using irc. and a good coms/military officer.
terrakan was gadflys at one stage. he always knew what he was doing. seemed to be able to organise well. so just pick people you get on well with. and that know the game.
Re: Leader
Oh I take the blame for Garrett shipjumping, Cityguy as it *was* my idea.
I wasn't happy with a couple of members so I offered a place to Cheese and Garrett. Its not like they came to me with the idea. Yes they could have said no, but I knew that they were not happy in Ren so I used it as a opportunity.
**Doesnt want to get involved anymore in this battle**
~on topic~
Best leader I had was probably Welshie simple because he made strong decisions and didnt look back which puts makes you believe his decisions. Also Im a fan of letting someone know when they are doing bad =P
Oh I take the blame for Garrett shipjumping, Cityguy as it *was* my idea.
I wasn't happy with a couple of members so I offered a place to Cheese and Garrett. Its not like they came to me with the idea. Yes they could have said no, but I knew that they were not happy in Ren so I used it as a opportunity.
**Doesnt want to get involved anymore in this battle**
~on topic~
Best leader I had was probably Welshie simple because he made strong decisions and didnt look back which puts makes you believe his decisions. Also Im a fan of letting someone know when they are doing bad =P
Re: Leader
/me jots down this thread,
I think there are a few basic requirements.
Commitment.
Faith.
Activity.
Contactability.
Politician.
Respected by members.
Feared by others.
Good attack / Defensive organisation.
Moral boosting.
Recruitment.
Communication.
Ally set up decisions.
Fun.
You don't have to have ALL of those to succeed.
But you need a good 90% of them.
And there is more...
/me jots down this thread,
I think there are a few basic requirements.
Commitment.
Faith.
Activity.
Contactability.
Politician.
Respected by members.
Feared by others.
Good attack / Defensive organisation.
Moral boosting.
Recruitment.
Communication.
Ally set up decisions.
Fun.
You don't have to have ALL of those to succeed.
But you need a good 90% of them.
And there is more...
BlackWolf
Landscape Designer
Re: Leader
First of all thank you cityguy from your kind words means a lot to me.
Garret please let people think what they want to think this thread is about what is good in leader not what you did or didnt do to some person during some round (no offence). You guys can solve this all in PM and be friends again we all know that.
Now to topic...
First of all i pologiese that following text will be really one sided but i have not played under too many leaders during my time in Bushtarion as i have spent most of my time as leader...
Good leader is made of maniac, idiotism, insanity and skill.
In which amounts each of those are there is dependable of leading style. Good leader can be one sitting in channel and not doing anything or one who is in one every thing members do. Its a lot dependabe of members too. We have seen some great leaders in this game and most of those have been less democratic ones. Why? Cause they are leaders and too bad for those democracy voters but when alliance is in thigh situation democracy can be dumped to some hole and if there is no leader than there is no victory.
I was first about to make list of 10 things what leader needs but after thinking of this thread for a while i realized there is basicly 2 things that leader needs and nothing else. Also in following i will speak of leaders as male form but never underestimate females they are over all better leaders in many cases than males.
Good leader knows his weaknesses and is able to outcome those and good leader is good liar to himself. Those are main 2 things i see as any good leader requires. To explain those it doesnt really matter how good player you are or how much you know of this game, but you must be able to admit to yourself you dont know smeg and be able to get someone else to do it for you then. Same way if your not too good with people or with defences or attacks then find someone who is to do such things for you. Thats knowing of your weaknesses.
What about lieing? You can be most honest person there is on this world but there is one person you must be able to lie to -yourself. If you dont believe to impossible how are you to make your members to believe in it? Good leader is believing to his cause no matter how hard it is to be achieved. Making yourself to believe you can win in situation where you really cant is hardest thing there is.
Those are 2 things leader needs. After that comes lots of small things but all of those are less meaningfull than those two i allready mentioned. You can overcome lack of anything else but lacking those 2 and your doomed. Yes you must be able to know strengths of your team and know what to say to them at any given perioid, know how to organize stuff and be able to come along with your team but all those are things you can learn within time. Experience comes from doing and that is something everyone must do to be really good but before that you just need to know if you have those 2 things which are either making you leader or not.
As last part i say that with experience comes new challenges. If you as leader think your best there is and you have nothing to learn then your not good leader. Knowing theres always someone better than you who can kick your ass is first thing to learn. After that learning how to take everything out of your team is what makes you shine. And as last its ability to think situations from all possible angles and make defeats to benefit your team. Turning misfortune to fortune. Being leader is one big road of learning the day you think you have learned everything you can is the day you give your enemies huge advantage over you.
There you go long letter and didnt even get started really. My opinions of this matter if someone cares.
First of all thank you cityguy from your kind words means a lot to me.
Garret please let people think what they want to think this thread is about what is good in leader not what you did or didnt do to some person during some round (no offence). You guys can solve this all in PM and be friends again we all know that.
Now to topic...
First of all i pologiese that following text will be really one sided but i have not played under too many leaders during my time in Bushtarion as i have spent most of my time as leader...
Good leader is made of maniac, idiotism, insanity and skill.
In which amounts each of those are there is dependable of leading style. Good leader can be one sitting in channel and not doing anything or one who is in one every thing members do. Its a lot dependabe of members too. We have seen some great leaders in this game and most of those have been less democratic ones. Why? Cause they are leaders and too bad for those democracy voters but when alliance is in thigh situation democracy can be dumped to some hole and if there is no leader than there is no victory.
I was first about to make list of 10 things what leader needs but after thinking of this thread for a while i realized there is basicly 2 things that leader needs and nothing else. Also in following i will speak of leaders as male form but never underestimate females they are over all better leaders in many cases than males.
Good leader knows his weaknesses and is able to outcome those and good leader is good liar to himself. Those are main 2 things i see as any good leader requires. To explain those it doesnt really matter how good player you are or how much you know of this game, but you must be able to admit to yourself you dont know smeg and be able to get someone else to do it for you then. Same way if your not too good with people or with defences or attacks then find someone who is to do such things for you. Thats knowing of your weaknesses.
What about lieing? You can be most honest person there is on this world but there is one person you must be able to lie to -yourself. If you dont believe to impossible how are you to make your members to believe in it? Good leader is believing to his cause no matter how hard it is to be achieved. Making yourself to believe you can win in situation where you really cant is hardest thing there is.
Those are 2 things leader needs. After that comes lots of small things but all of those are less meaningfull than those two i allready mentioned. You can overcome lack of anything else but lacking those 2 and your doomed. Yes you must be able to know strengths of your team and know what to say to them at any given perioid, know how to organize stuff and be able to come along with your team but all those are things you can learn within time. Experience comes from doing and that is something everyone must do to be really good but before that you just need to know if you have those 2 things which are either making you leader or not.
As last part i say that with experience comes new challenges. If you as leader think your best there is and you have nothing to learn then your not good leader. Knowing theres always someone better than you who can kick your ass is first thing to learn. After that learning how to take everything out of your team is what makes you shine. And as last its ability to think situations from all possible angles and make defeats to benefit your team. Turning misfortune to fortune. Being leader is one big road of learning the day you think you have learned everything you can is the day you give your enemies huge advantage over you.
There you go long letter and didnt even get started really. My opinions of this matter if someone cares.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 405
Re: Leader
Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss things that are not related, either make a new topic or move it to PM, Ty.
Quoting player tips from the manual:
Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss things that are not related, either make a new topic or move it to PM, Ty.
Quoting player tips from the manual:
Making the team work might be one of the most important things, remember that TEAM = Together Everyone Achieves More.
BlackWolf
Landscape Designer
Re: Leader
Even if you dont agree with actions of certain players please dont ruin good thread with whining about it. You can always go and make new post to gripes if you have something to say. Thank you.
Even if you dont agree with actions of certain players please dont ruin good thread with whining about it. You can always go and make new post to gripes if you have something to say. Thank you.