Cyborg Gardener NERF

[Podunk]

Willy I've said more than once in this thread that there is no reason to nerf the unit itself just the dev time.

Once again a non-comparison with Pol Bribers. They're another unit that is worthless after the first few days. Not to mention they're not hard to deal with at the start since the attacker might have a few hundred thousand of them due to their price. Also that route is pretty bad until you get to Puppets.

And yes, I understand that CGs are important to get more land to get more funds to get CW quicker. But a few hour delay in getting a few more acres is negligible as you can still mass other forms of flak and do just as well. And yes we know you can fend them off if you know they're coming. Its the entire reason we're having this debate.

Just a note: We're public because we're here to have fun and its a great way to get mass WK early. There was no elaborate route scheme believe it or not and I'm not complaining about losing land to CGs. We lost land because we had 10+ members covered with mass flak incs and we're not the most active bunch go figure.

 

[Dimitar]

Well this is getting ridiculously admiral..

 

[LuckySports]

I think your saying bringing them out after hacks. When really you want them weaker..not later. i mean take political briber. no one complains they are out before hack. Because there are lots of HD lethal targeting lethals out at the time they are and you make a note of who has them.

You could do the same for CG if you really tried to... Bringing them out later would make it harder to get early land with them which is the point in deving them instead of useful attacking/defencive lethals. You aim to get a nice land count and rush through the expensive robo devs to get CW asap.

Anyway I dont think they need a nerf. As you have played them I guess it must be a difference of opinion. As when i played them and defended them I found they were defendable, and werent too overpowered imo. Though i was the person with mass apprentices and active, and did log every incoming i saw in player notes, and my experience/luck must have just been different to yours.

Ps. also public alliance is a que to send all the CG they can at you as soon as they can. if you were solo they couldnt and if they didnt know they couldnt. not to mention you have only 4 terrorist (none of whom seemd to stock any amount of HT i see no more than 100k in early battle reports between any of them) & 1 dragon route. no wounder you struggled relying on mass guru.

Willy - Comparing Polb's to CG is a lot like comparing a geo to a wheelie.. The wheelie is only useful until something better comes out (except in layered flakking), whilst the geo retains its usefulness all-round!

The same is for CG.. Delaying it 12hrs for hax to come out would not stop them from landing, I've seen them hit people that KNEW it was CG, tried to defend and still couldn't. CG are very powerful..


Now, with that said, I don't think they should be nerfed, but a delay would certainly help even the playing field a little bit.

 

[willymchilybily]

snip

snip....... CG.. Delaying it 12hrs for hax to come out would not stop them from landing, I've seen them hit people that KNEW it was CG, tried to defend and still couldn't. CG are very powerful..

Now, with that said, I don't think they should be nerfed, but a delay would certainly help even the playing field a little bit.

I disagree lucky they are either defendable or too hard to defend. The point in bringing them out specifically after hacks should be because once you know they are there you can stop them. Otherwise you just want a delay in dev time and it has nothing to do with having hacks?

I think the increase in lethals due to the delayed dev time is more than enough to take away thier advantage and make them easier to defend. But I also think shortening the time between having cg and having pb (like the suggestion would do) is an unneccassry nerf when coupled with everything else... Anyway.... im out. I wasted too much time on this suggestion many rounds back to tread the same ground this round.

 

[LuckySports]

snip

snip....... CG.. Delaying it 12hrs for hax to come out would not stop them from landing, I've seen them hit people that KNEW it was CG, tried to defend and still couldn't. CG are very powerful..

Now, with that said, I don't think they should be nerfed, but a delay would certainly help even the playing field a little bit.

I disagree lucky they are either defendable or too hard to defend. The point in bringing them out specifically after hacks should be because once you know they are there you can stop them. Otherwise you just want a delay in dev time and it has nothing to do with having hacks?

I think the increase in lethals due to the delayed dev time is more than enough to take away thier advantage and make them easier to defend. But I also think shortening the time between having cg and having pb (like the suggestion would do) is an unneccassry nerf when coupled with everything else... Anyway.... im out. I wasted too much time on this suggestion many rounds back to tread the same ground this round.

They are not easily defensible anytime in the early round... I've SEEN them land time and time again.. Delaying them does not negate their usefulness.. I don't honestly see how you could think it would, unless you rely entirely on surprise for all your attacks to land.. :/

 

[Steve_God]

[...snip...] unless you rely entirely on surprise for all your attacks to land.. :/

Brings a whole new meaning to the line: "It's not rape if you shout 'Surprise!' "

[/off topic]


But anyway, I don't get why the big who-har about CGs... there's a simple solution to them. Lethals.
If one alliance has massed on CGs for the obvious reason to get land quickly, the simple retaliation is to mass lethal units against them, and quickly.

They don't need tweaking... they just need to be countered where their weakness is.
Ed worked it out against Combo last round when we went for a specialist route set-up, and found out that Harriers were a big weakness against it.
All you need to do is go against CGs weakness, lethals. It has nothing to defend against them for a fair while into the round.

 

[Podunk]

[...snip...] unless you rely entirely on surprise for all your attacks to land.. :/

Brings a whole new meaning to the line: "It's not rape if you shout 'Surprise!' "

[/off topic]


But anyway, I don't get why the big who-har about CGs... there's a simple solution to them. Lethals.
If one alliance has massed on CGs for the obvious reason to get land quickly, the simple retaliation is to mass lethal units against them, and quickly.

They don't need tweaking... they just need to be countered where their weakness is.
Ed worked it out against Combo last round when we went for a specialist route set-up, and found out that Harriers were a big weakness against it.
All you need to do is go against CGs weakness, lethals. It has nothing to defend against them for a fair while into the round.

There aren't many lethals other than privs/officers and apps when CG are out during the time span we've been discussing. It only makes sense to mass apps, as privs/officers are only good for sweeping and they don't do AD. Leaving the only viable counter to be mass hippies and/or mass apps. Apps being most viable since they murder everything else as well. Even then it still doesn't fix the problem of not knowing they're coming.

Anyways, at this point I'm just a broken record so I'll stop arguing

 

[Twigley]

I think they are fine. :turn-l:

My spidersense is tingling, Zaheen.