Cheating solos

[Silence]

Battle Report - cheater
[range] 50,111,563 allied Striker attacked, killing 5,666,785 hostile staff.
[range] 4,520,303 hostile Siren sang out, freezing in place 635,920 allied staff.
[range] 45,927,614 hostile Sorcerer attacked, killing 333,815,358 allied staff.
[range] 16,686 allied Grenadier attacked, killing 42,376 hostile staff.
[range] 4,745,745 hostile Dragon breathed fire on and melted 25,273,192 allied staff.
[range] 19,405,290 allied Apache Longbow attacked, killing 117,526,232 hostile staff.
[range] 7,646,620 allied Marine attacked, killing 11,401,345 hostile staff.
[range] 199,201 allied Heavy Weapons attacked, killing 215,355 hostile staff.

Stunned: 635,920 [£59,422,756,000] friendlies stunned.
Died: 359,088,550 [£1,229,569,905,000] friendlies dead. 134,852,093 [£2,606,090,131,700] enemies dead.

You gained 531,786 effectiveness.
You earned £148,191,434,572 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £153,512,386,300 insurance.


A fair report, I expected the losses but the ~2,000 acres grab I was to grab it would be worth it.


However on my attacking for three tick I spied and no SAS, content with the fact that my attack would be successful I left my computer screen to return after the tick.

Naturally I stayed on atf3 as I was not at my computer and rejoiced when I saw the sucessful BR. Out of habit I spied my target just in case.

However during my absense this mob was launched.

Sun 12th Mar, year 3. Afternoon Incoming Hostiles
News from your sources is that in 2 ticks, 24,903,103 people from x [xxxx] will arrive to attack you. Mob ETA was modified by -1 from: Adrenaline rush boost.


A mob which would set SAS off on my atf1 tick.


Ofc this could be malicious because of my current rank and alliance. I ruled these factors out because it usually would be sent at atf2 with hippies.
Secondly my target was actually online. He sent out on the second tick and used this as a method to get AR, spend his saved funds and keep all of his acres.


Its obvious that this is cheating, not just a malicious attempt to sabotage an attack of mine. A method used to raise his AR from 0% (Because it was 0% ive watched this guy for days as he is my only target) to a safer level


Just generally the AR system is a joke because of this. I hope that this solo is punished for his actions tarnishing his reputation of a solo which I thought was playing a good round. Heh, a solo playing without cheating? What a joke.

 

[Twigley]

Can't even remember how many threads have been made like this and nothing got done...

:/

 

[tobapopalos]

I've heard grumblings about these particular solos from several people so far. If they are who I think they are then it isn't the first time, either.

It probably can't be proven whether or not the AR triggerer was asked to by the target, or whether he just decided to be a *******.

Of course, the person's intentions are only half of the problem. The other half is that the game mechanics allow him to do this. It's been a problem with AR for as long as I can remember, and I don't think Azzer has ever tried to do anything about it.

Can we please get something put in place which stops AR triggering on fair attackers?

 

[Alcibiades]

i second everything said so far. Wish i had more input but figure righteous indignation will have to do for now. Can we please get a solution to this?

 

[Dark_Angel]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

And as has been mentioned determining whether the guy who sent to trigger AR was asked to do so, or was just being a git, is very difficult.

Investigating allegations such as this one would be massively time consuming, I'd imagine, and somewhat tedious given how trivial the "offence" actually is.

What punishment do you impose on someone who deliberately triggers AR? Anything more than a slap on the wrist would be OTT, anything less wouldn't deter people anyway.

 

[Alcibiades]

it's not a trivial offence when done repeatedly and when it ruins the gameplay for other players.

I'd have their accounts deleted. If they don't want to play by the rules, they can gtfo.

That response may seem 'over the top' to you DA, but if you start deleting the accounts of those who cheat they'll either leave for greener pastures or learn how to play properly. Of course you follow the usual procedure to have the admin locked accounts locked for a certain period of time so that they can 'make their case' as it were. *shrug* i don't have sympathy for people who trigger deliberately. Even intentionally triggering on someone simply because you dislike them is a lame tactic and should be frowned upon, if not outright prevented.

*insert light administrating spiel from Azzer here* ... Bollocks. There are some places and times where rules should be followed to the strictest possible interpretation to prevent people from seeing a 'precedent' and getting away with, what is essentially, bloody murder.

 

[Silence]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

And as has been mentioned determining whether the guy who sent to trigger AR was asked to do so, or was just being a git, is very difficult.

Investigating allegations such as this one would be massively time consuming, I'd imagine, and somewhat tedious given how trivial the "offence" actually is.

What punishment do you impose on someone who deliberately triggers AR? Anything more than a slap on the wrist would be OTT, anything less wouldn't deter people anyway.

As I mentioned if you actually READ the post, its obvious that the players ASKED for the incoming BECAUSE he was ONLINE and used it to boost his AR WITHOUT any loss of acres so thereofre he could then spend his saved funds and be invincible.

Secondly a punishment would be temp. locking then perm. locking it he kept offending. Its easy.

Think before posting Darkangel?

 

[tobapopalos]

As I mentioned if you actually READ the post, its obvious that the players ASKED for the incoming BECAUSE he was ONLINE and used it to boost his AR WITHOUT any loss of acres so thereofre he could then spend his saved funds and be invincible.

It makes sense, but it doesn't prove anything, which is what DA was saying.

I agree with you that it probably was mutual, but it has to be proven for something to be done about it.

It's possible that the person did just decide to try and trigger on you and the target decided to use that to his advantage, and there was no prior conversation between target and triggerer. And just to re-iterate, I do not think that's what actually happened, but you have to accept the possiblity that it wasn't mutual.

 

[Martin]

tbh, if I was ever online when you hit them and I didn't get a Mod. I'd send a spiteful Hippy to trigger on you too....

 

[harriergirl]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

And as has been mentioned determining whether the guy who sent to trigger AR was asked to do so, or was just being a git, is very difficult.

Investigating allegations such as this one would be massively time consuming, I'd imagine, and somewhat tedious given how trivial the "offence" actually is.

What punishment do you impose on someone who deliberately triggers AR? Anything more than a slap on the wrist would be OTT, anything less wouldn't deter people anyway.

Minimising the problem won't make it go away DA. Ignoring it isn't either. Perhaps AR will be included in part of the new "fairness calc" It's hard to say really. There are cheaters everywhere, the trick is to find them and make the game hard for them when we can

 

[IceOfFire]

tbh, if I was ever online when you hit them and I didn't get a Mod. I'd send a spiteful Hippy to trigger on you too....

As much as i agree with Silence's original post, i agree with big Mart dog here.

If this was last round and i saw say FeR or Seetal out attacking a solo, i would have done the same...

 

[Antinoobkiller]

OMFG DUDES, THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME LIKE xx TIMES And I WHINED ON IRQ and EVERYTHING AND U SAID IT WAS ALLOWED, FFS. AND NOW YOU SAY ITS CHEATING WTF!?!? I MEAN IM SURE THIS IS JUST BECAUSE IT IS SOMEONE LIKE SILENCE OPEN IS MOUTH AND HE WILL BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY WHEN HE GRIBES MOANS ABOUT IT -,,-.

ONCE AGAIN MY THOUGHTS ARE and were RIGHT, ONLY because it is silencer attacking a solo and someone trigger his ar its called cheating. ROFL LMAO have happened to me xx times as I said already. I WAS LIKE OMFG CHEAT ABUSE WHEN THIS HAPPENED TO ME AND WENT TO IRQ TO TALK ABOUT IT AND THEN YOU SAID IT IS ALLOWED CAUSE IT WAS JUST SOME RANDOM GUY SPEAKIN ON IRQ. YOU GUYS ARE THE ****IN LAMEST PPL, YOU HAVE NO HONOR AND YOU CHEAT YOURSELVES. I KNOW YOU ALSO HAVE DONE THIS SILENCER AND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. OFC THIS CANT BE PROVEN BUT IM like 99% sure that you guys have done this too. I mean I CAN SMELL IT from all u guys that nothing you say is 100% true.

This post disqusted me when I read it, not only becuase It have happened to myself but because im sure you and ur friends have done this too. Or more like that most of you are cheaters in one way or another.

Cant belieave some of the postings here, you said to me on irc that it is allowed and almost felt good about when u said it to me. and no you take silence under ur arms. I almost puke when I think how black&white some of the ppl are here.

I mean I was undercover when I was on irc,noway anyone could have known it was me moaning about this matter.

 

[CFalcon]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

There are two very simple game mechanics that could be added to prevent this, and which were discussed a fair amount in the AR thread that was up 6 months or so ago.

1. Only AR triggered when you are at attacking for 3 can target you. If you are at atf1, and someone comes behind and trips on you, none of it will target you. Simple.

2. AR only targets the triggering mob. ie, if you send a mob that won't trigger, then after you've sent (even on the same tick) if someone else sends, and the result is AR tripping, the AR will only target that second person. Similarly, if two people send and their combined total is under AR, but a third person then sends and pushes it over, only that third person will be targeted by AR.

This would *completely* get rid of triggering for friends. Toby is spot on when he says there's no way to prove it was intended to be an agreed attack to trigger, but that the problem can be bypassed by having sufficient game mechanics.

 

[Spiky Spoon]

I like the sound of that. But i'm sure u can not trigger AR 1 tick and then trigger it the 2nd tick. i seem to remember this happening to me. and then there'd be no way if knowing if it had triggered for you or the following attacker. (if that makes sense. lol)

 

[WildDisease]

Look outside teh boxxxxx

Solos do this for a reason.. The current protection put in place for them is not reasonably enough D:

 

[CLem]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

There are two very simple game mechanics that could be added to prevent this, and which were discussed a fair amount in the AR thread that was up 6 months or so ago.

1. Only AR triggered when you are at attacking for 3 can target you. If you are at atf1, and someone comes behind and trips on you, none of it will target you. Simple.

2. AR only targets the triggering mob. ie, if you send a mob that won't trigger, then after you've sent (even on the same tick) if someone else sends, and the result is AR tripping, the AR will only target that second person. Similarly, if two people send and their combined total is under AR, but a third person then sends and pushes it over, only that third person will be targeted by AR.

This would *completely* get rid of triggering for friends. Toby is spot on when he says there's no way to prove it was intended to be an agreed attack to trigger, but that the problem can be bypassed by having sufficient game mechanics.

winner

 

[Alcibiades]

I think if there was a game mechanic to prevent this it'd have been implemented already.

There are two very simple game mechanics that could be added to prevent this, and which were discussed a fair amount in the AR thread that was up 6 months or so ago.

1. Only AR triggered when you are at attacking for 3 can target you. If you are at atf1, and someone comes behind and trips on you, none of it will target you. Simple.

2. AR only targets the triggering mob. ie, if you send a mob that won't trigger, then after you've sent (even on the same tick) if someone else sends, and the result is AR tripping, the AR will only target that second person. Similarly, if two people send and their combined total is under AR, but a third person then sends and pushes it over, only that third person will be targeted by AR.

This would *completely* get rid of triggering for friends. Toby is spot on when he says there's no way to prove it was intended to be an agreed attack to trigger, but that the problem can be bypassed by having sufficient game mechanics.

Spot on. I knew there were solutions we'd come up with, i just couldn't remember what they were. Cheers for the post.

Antinoobkiller, you miss the subtle point yet again. Triggering is only illegal/cheating if it can be proved that the target asked for the triggering to happen. Then it is illegal, which is precisely what i told you in #bushtarion, when i assume it was you, were quizzing the room as a whole as to the legality/questionability of triggering as a tactic. I could dredge up the logs if i wanted to but it's really not worth the effort.

There is an annoying subtetly here that you're missing. Proven requested triggering is illegal, triggering without proof of coordination between the target who is getting AR and the person triggering it, is not illegal. IMO, it should be, but it is not (yet). This has nothing to do with who posted the gripe or their status ingame. If you bothered to read the old forums, or even the new ones i'm sure, you'd find plenty of complaints about AR triggering from all manner of players, new ones, old ones, in-betweeners etc. It's not a new problem but CFalcon has proposed certain easy functional measures.

 

[Enrico]

Hmm, not sure if this is possible to code into todays system, but what if AR instead of acting as part of the targets units (like all defending units do) would fire as if oit was an incoming mob?

I.e. First tick on target: Only targets incoming on Range. Second tick on target: Only targets incoming on Middle. Third tick on target: only targets incoming on Close.

That would mean people triggering behind you would not hurt you, would not stop people from massing on a target to trigger, but then they would have to stay and die themselves as well...

And ANK: when you were undercover on IRQ (sic), are you sure you didn't ask about whether triggering is allowed? Because it is, it is mutually agreed attacks that is against the EULA. I.e. someone asking someone else to attack them to trigger defenses.

 

[Antinoobkiller]

Dosnt matter if it is allowed or not, its abuse tactics, there is no diffrence between if a friend trigger or an enemy of the attacker triggering since the result is the same. And since it is impossible to prove it, yes it is impossible to prove these things. only the defending solo can know if it is a friend triggering or just a random enemy triggering his ar. I mean im sure they know that ingame-messages can be read so they wont discuss this things there.

I rly dont care if it is a friend or enemy triggering but what disturps is that you can make someone untouchable/unattackble when doing this. very abusive.

 

[Polo]

I've heard grumblings about these particular solos from several people so far. If they are who I think they are then it isn't the first time, either.

If it's who I think it is (badforu), he's supposed to be perma-banned.

Solos do this for a reason.. The current protection put in place for them is not reasonably enough D:

Only if you're a rubbish player.