Age 2 feedback only thread

[Shyslywolf]

My final feedback on Age 2

My final feedback on Age 2

ok here is my input,

I think that the 30 man teams are rediculous. Already a week or so into the round, there is an obvious winner. If you look at everyone who has over 1k land, all but 2 are from the top ally. I was going to go solo, but found that gov def never kicked in even once, so after being raped over and over and over again, i finally joined a small ally of 8 people. our activity is decent, but pretty much, the second that we would buy up anything over 1k land, we would get 3 incomming "or more" that would take it right back again. As land & seeds have no value, and there are allys of 30 people who probably have 10-15 people on at any one time to defend, it makes it so that the only way to attack is in massive groups. then you throw in the Azzer chalenge of basic units only and that there are those that do not play by those rules... it makes it kind of pointless. Pretty much i feel that the last week and a half have been a complete waist of my time.

Azzer, throw it back in the trash where it belongs, the improvements that you have made over the years are sooooo much better. (that is my oppinion of course).

thanks

 

[penguin]

Not even reading all the comments above on age two I shall put my thoughts in about age two
-OVERALL I think it's a lot better than what we have now. More details below.
on a bad note, I don't like how short the round is [granted you only did this to see how other people think of it.]
-hmm.. Tooltips.. I miss those things a lot.. I miss being able to hax someone and hover over each troop and get their information that way. Granted, the information is still there via manual, but it was a lot quicker to pick your targets better with tooltips.
-As for the developments/troops/cost/ETA time.. the cost of the troops I think are fantastic. The devel time is alright, I wouldn't change it because of impatient people when it comes to devels like myself. The troops.. I give that three thumbs up It's not that many troops so LOGICALLY, you can spend more money on the small variety of troops that you do have I wouldn't really change anything on that either.
-The overview page is a lot different. I'm used to minimizing the admin message after reading it if there's something new, and that's the page I sit there and watch as ticks go by not being able to unlock the different sections so you can minimize them is the only thing I dislike about that page.
-I couldn't find 'alliance overview' for nothing until I joined a different alliance. found out it was alliance info, which IMO is better than 'alliance overview' and alliance info suits the page more
-Definitely made a couple mistakes going to developments rather than hiring and with the other ones, but I'm not picky about where the hyperlinks are in the menu tbh.
-I like how the score is actually calculated in age 2 rather than this long equation. Granted it might not be the best thing in the world, but at least you know someone's score is all troops instead of troop valuation, land, seeds, developments done etc. etc. and I like how land takes VERY LITTLE to your score. I think it shows more strategy than anything else.
-The only thing I don't like about the alliances is them being public, I think they should automatically be set to private since I think finding ID lists actually fun to do.
-And I don't think spy should be already there, the rest I can get used to being there because it's easier to choose a target in the beginning.

and the politics confused the hell out of me at first
I like it overall though.
-bring on age 3

 

[Tim]

Here are my thoughts, based on having played Age 2 when it was out and having been re-acquainted with it in the last few weeks.

The way I see it is this; Age 2 and Age 5 have similar layouts and similar concepts, but they are in reality two totally different games. I will outline my thoughts and reasonings throughout this post.

I don't play Age 5. I played much of Age 3. Played a couple rounds here & there in between. But that, in reality is it. I had thought I had simply gotten bored with Bushtarion & my time as a player had run its course a long time ago. I no longer had the passion & enjoyment I once had.

However, when Age 2 came back temporarily and especially in this mini-round, I was like I used to be. On all the time, addicted to it and getting really late nights. I have been really enjoying it. The key point here is this: these actions are not the sign of someone who is bored. Rather, they are the sign of a person playing a game he loved and having lots of fun.

Simply put, Age 2 is simple and easy to get into. You start, you plant, you develop, you steal and then eventually you pwn or get pwned. That is it. The units are simple to understand (if slightly unbalanced!), the game is really easy to start and get the hang of and even the manual gives players not familiar with the setup a good idea of how to play and get going.

I have also found that Age 2 is more of a free for all. Players are more compacted around similar scores and there are many more targets. Players can take down big alliances with just a few members, as seen both in this mini-round as well as older Age 2 rounds too. I consider it more of a "deathmatch" almost, rather than a true complex & tactic wargame.

And that is its beauty.

Contract this with Age 5. I personally find Age 5 and its predecessors very complex and more tactic-based. For a new player (or indeed someone stuck in their ways), it is more difficult to get into as there are more things you have to take into consideration. Land score, stealth units, complex anti-rape rules, disabling/stunning/killing/distracting/bribing, middle tick units, injuries, development mod, etc. And much more.

Players have fewer targets and IDs are spread over a wider variety of scores. Alliance wars are more about bashing en masse (or at least they certainly were in my latter days) than much else.

Do not misunderstand me - the game currently is something Azzer can be proud of. He has put a lot of time and effort into it and he has listened to a lot of player input, including the Creator's Day event. The skills and tactics required to win or do well are skills many people have and no doubt enjoy using.

However, my main point is that it isn't simple enough for people to get into. I am essentially a "new player" to Age 5 as I don't have a clue about much of it. I have created accounts and tried to play, but I simply cannot get into it in the way I got back into Age 2 within a few hours.

So, my opinion overall is that Age 5 needs to be a lot simpler for newbies to get into. You want people coming from MPOGD and other similar websites to create an account, login and get stuck into it and stay online for "just one more attack", as I'm sure we've all done.

The one thing I do like in Age 5 is the dramatic improvement to the actual game interface. Tool tips, politics improvements, alliance improvements and all the cute little enhancements which make it easier to do stuff. I love those. It makes me wonder how people in the olden days got by with what is certainly a more primitive interface.

Sadly, I don't know what the answer is. Age 5 is a different game to Age 2, which was arguably Bushtarion's heyday, however I am definitely not saying it is a bad game. I just think it is too complex for new players to pick up and learn within a few hours - which is possibly when new players will get bored, logout and never visit again.

The one suggestion I have from all of this is that Azzer should create an Age 2-style mini tournament at the end of each round; "Bushtarion: Deathmatch". A two week mini-round between rounds with the sole purpose being to pwn and amass lots of land. Have people pay a credit each, prizes only for the top two/three IDs. Small, public alliances. Lots of war and pwnage.

Look forward to hearing the thoughts of others in response to this.

 

[Gooner]

5min ticks ftw...easy to play between age 5!

 

[penguin]

I agree.

I agree.

Tim said:
So, my opinion overall is that Age 5 needs to be a lot simpler for newbies to get into. You want people coming from MPOGD and other similar websites to create an account, login and get stuck into it and stay online for "just one more attack", as I'm sure we've all done.

I know that it doesn't take a couple hours to learn all of the 'new' bushtarion, and getting people 'stuck' in the game as long term players I have to agree with Tim, the way age 5 is now seems WAY too complex to learn everything within a day or a few hours. I know I don't know everything [people make darn sure of that one.] about the new bushtarion, but it didn't take long to learn age 2 at all. I knew the basics, and that's all I need to know.

Tim also said:
That is it. The units are simple to understand (if slightly unbalanced!), the game is really easy to start and get the hang of and even the manual gives players not familiar with the setup a good idea of how to play and get going.

And they are really simple to understand, you only have def/offense, class, targets and init. nothing else
And the manual - simply great.

Thanks for saying this stuff Tim, I seem to have forgotten to mention something about it

 

[Steve_God]

Had chance to properly remind myself of the changes now, and here are my thoughts on the main game principals: (As other areas of the game such as tooltips, search improvements, etc... are much better.)

I prefer the game being more about the land, although having said that, it's also reminded me that it causes the last part of the round to be a dull one while many people sit on their land hoping to make ascore jump at the end. (Myself being no exception).
And while it's nice to be able to do it, it does unfortunately cause the latter period of the round to become stale, as there's very little other way to grow.

The routes and targeting might aswell be a whole different game, however one major observation that I noticed was that most units do very little in terms of killing flak. Infact all routes with lots of lower, all primarily target lethals, with Terrorists being the only exception. It generally makes it much easier to land with less flak, which I feel makes general attacking better as you're more likely to land from an attack.

I also like the freedom to be able send more than 1 defence mob to an alliance member, meaning you can recall half of your mob if you wish (assuming you've split them when sending).

Other little bits: I like the politics thread having all threads showing at the top

 

[Yali]

Well.... Having started playing in Round 3 and stopping to play seriously around round 9/10 (mainly due to time commitments etc) but always having an account to stick around and see whats going on, this is what i think!

I will always remember Bushtarion from those early ages for been so simple & addictive and for me, that was & is it's strongest draw for me. Although the game is comparitively simple to other games out there now, it is still more complex than i truly understand... And somehow i am top 200 in age 5 this round! This simplicity of units, tech routes, units which attack on close/range etc were simply quick and easy to pick-up in age 2. If i was having a busy day i could simply logon in the background and know what to do when x y z happened - even if it wasn't always possible, i knew what was needed.

The newer version has all these extra bits, different routes & clarifications on what units can & can't do (which are very good improvements), i just don't have the time to truly learn them. I am not one to see down and read manuals etc, which is where these newbie alliances i think will work very well. I liked Chaos' suggestion about having almost a seperate world where newbies get promoted from once they reach a certain score... Not sure how it would work exactly (lots of bots or something which i don't like the sound of). So you could make it so that bottom 50, who have 15 or more acres are almost 'safe' from higher ranked players, or you are immune until over 250 acres(or X amount)...? But once over that X number (even if you drop below it again) you have no immunity. Not sure...

Obviously all the new jazzy bits are quality and getting around age 2 feels a bit slow and painful compared to age 5 which really is very slick and proffesional....

I like that unlimited alliances... i remember GITK having like 90 members and losing to NewOrder on like 15... As long as this isn't abused that is fun! I also belive this encourages backstabbing etc! The leader starts letting in too many people and the higher ranked players lose targets so they leave and then start attacking!

The defend anyone rule also has a similiar effect as above. Alliances have a 'do not touch thread' and then you start getting alliance members defending friends who are been attacked by the alliance etc etc etc and people get pissed off and leave and then try and take down that alliance...

For example... Round 6... TerraHawks are winning, looking quite comfortable... Middle of the night some people leave, PureEvil is reborn (under the name of Angels), take down a lot of TerraHawks and win the round after stealing alot of there land and having score jumps).... Great fun even if i was on the losing side!

The land score/seeds score/troops score etc... Whatever it is in age 5 just doesn't seem to work for me... A re-jigging of it is required imo... I like age 2 where land is the key as that encourages attacks and some of these are sucidial! True... people can have massive jumps which are good for the game and some which are bad in age 2 - some jumping so much as people have not notice (like what Steve_God said). So maybe there is a middle ground between the two ages...

All in all... Bushtarion imo is a quality game! I like bits of both... However if i had a choice, i would play age 2... I would some imrpovements and with these, who knows, maybe i would end up with age 5 - maybe i just remember things been 'better than they truly were'... Maybe it is the player base, because i don't really know anyone in age 5 (unless they played back then)... I am not 100% sure why it is, but i do prefer age 2!


On other notes, i love Tim's idea about the quick rounds of age 2 in PW's where you pay to play... Love it! Could even be more flexible and say 2 minute ticks for the first 24 hours to quicken it up if it is a short round...

 

[Benneh]

We've had age-2, now do a an age-3 re-run!