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Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.
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Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.
The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.
Retal Rule
- Thread starter Cheese
- Start date
Steve_God
Official Helper
I'll expand as you don't seem to take info from what I say across from one thread which I know you've read, to another :roll:
The adrenaline rush bounties are DESIGNED to make it hard work for Rank One.
Everyone complains that it's too hard to kill the Rank One alliance, each and every round, for years and years, and this is one of the first in-game mechanisms against the top that isn't 'over the top' like CRA was.
It hasn't taken down the Rank One alliance yet has it? Nope... but it's given an incentive for people to have a shot at doing a little bit of damage to those at the top, giving a small incentive to balance the power, and make whoever is at the top not completely unstopable.
'IF' a person under 5% of you is successful at it, then within a small handful of attacks, they will have grown in size due to the bounty they gained, and then you can try retaling them.
And if you can't deal with incoming from someone LESS THAN 5% of you for maybe 2/3 attacks? That you would be the definition of a score queen
I'll expand as you don't seem to take info from what I say across from one thread which I know you've read, to another :roll:
The adrenaline rush bounties are DESIGNED to make it hard work for Rank One.
Everyone complains that it's too hard to kill the Rank One alliance, each and every round, for years and years, and this is one of the first in-game mechanisms against the top that isn't 'over the top' like CRA was.
It hasn't taken down the Rank One alliance yet has it? Nope... but it's given an incentive for people to have a shot at doing a little bit of damage to those at the top, giving a small incentive to balance the power, and make whoever is at the top not completely unstopable.
'IF' a person under 5% of you is successful at it, then within a small handful of attacks, they will have grown in size due to the bounty they gained, and then you can try retaling them.
And if you can't deal with incoming from someone LESS THAN 5% of you for maybe 2/3 attacks? That you would be the definition of a score queen
you go get him tiger, rawr.
also, dont believe cheese's propaganda, he only wants free acres!
Alcibiades
Plant Geneticist
I'll expand as you don't seem to take info from what I say across from one thread which I know you've read, to another :roll:
The adrenaline rush bounties are DESIGNED to make it hard work for Rank One.
Everyone complains that it's too hard to kill the Rank One alliance, each and every round, for years and years, and this is one of the first in-game mechanisms against the top that isn't 'over the top' like CRA was.
It hasn't taken down the Rank One alliance yet has it? Nope... but it's given an incentive for people to have a shot at doing a little bit of damage to those at the top, giving a small incentive to balance the power, and make whoever is at the top not completely unstopable.
'IF' a person under 5% of you is successful at it, then within a small handful of attacks, they will have grown in size due to the bounty they gained, and then you can try retaling them.
And if you can't deal with incoming from someone LESS THAN 5% of you for maybe 2/3 attacks? That you would be the definition of a score queen
This.
Cheese
Tree Surgeon
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
- Messages
- 698
I'll expand as you don't seem to take info from what I say across from one thread which I know you've read, to another :roll:
The adrenaline rush bounties are DESIGNED to make it hard work for Rank One.
Everyone complains that it's too hard to kill the Rank One alliance, each and every round, for years and years, and this is one of the first in-game mechanisms against the top that isn't 'over the top' like CRA was.
It hasn't taken down the Rank One alliance yet has it? Nope... but it's given an incentive for people to have a shot at doing a little bit of damage to those at the top, giving a small incentive to balance the power, and make whoever is at the top not completely unstopable.
'IF' a person under 5% of you is successful at it, then within a small handful of attacks, they will have grown in size due to the bounty they gained, and then you can try retaling them.
And if you can't deal with incoming from someone LESS THAN 5% of you for maybe 2/3 attacks? That you would be the definition of a score queen
This.
I never said people can't deal with the incoming anywhere in any shape or any form.
My arguement is nothing else in bush gives you such easy money so I feel there should be some element of risk added to it.
And antsan as I said before I haven't been rushed once... so even if the retal rule was altered I still wouldn't be getting any free acres as it would probably lower the amount of rushes on me, now what's lower than 0?
Dax
Hydroponics Developer
I'll expand as you don't seem to take info from what I say across from one thread which I know you've read, to another :roll:
The adrenaline rush bounties are DESIGNED to make it hard work for Rank One.
Everyone complains that it's too hard to kill the Rank One alliance, each and every round, for years and years, and this is one of the first in-game mechanisms against the top that isn't 'over the top' like CRA was.
It hasn't taken down the Rank One alliance yet has it? Nope... but it's given an incentive for people to have a shot at doing a little bit of damage to those at the top, giving a small incentive to balance the power, and make whoever is at the top not completely unstopable.
'IF' a person under 5% of you is successful at it, then within a small handful of attacks, they will have grown in size due to the bounty they gained, and then you can try retaling them.
And if you can't deal with incoming from someone LESS THAN 5% of you for maybe 2/3 attacks? That you would be the definition of a score queen
This.
Concur.
I'll be interested to see if any other rank 1 members have the same issue as you Cheese - Say, people who are getting rushed, like Cid.
I agree with Cheese's point that nothing in this game should be risk-free. For starters, it's boring.
That being said, I'm not sure if lowering the retal limit is the best approach either. I'd rather see a reduction in the multiplier for rushing (as Yuri said). That way smaller players still have the incentive of smaller losses when attacking the top (making people more likely to take part in alliances), without getting free cash.
Obviously, the chances of a resistance happening in this stage of the game isn't exactly likely, but I'd like to see the system in place with a reduced multiplier for the whole of next round to see how it affects things.
That being said, I'm not sure if lowering the retal limit is the best approach either. I'd rather see a reduction in the multiplier for rushing (as Yuri said). That way smaller players still have the incentive of smaller losses when attacking the top (making people more likely to take part in alliances), without getting free cash.
Obviously, the chances of a resistance happening in this stage of the game isn't exactly likely, but I'd like to see the system in place with a reduced multiplier for the whole of next round to see how it affects things.
willymchilybily
Landscape Designer
you can retal, its only considered free if below 5%
the limit limit could be reduced but is pretty reasonable as it is. Just a few % smaller is a massive leap and bound between range (like now 5% and 4% of rank 1 is the difference between rank 50 and rank 75), and as mentioned this is to hinder the top, not help them. so i see no reason why azzer would give the top a free meal ticket if some one chose to try and attack them. someone that was sooo small they would deal almost negligible damage to the target, and the person could counter with such ease that they woudldnt stand a chance to prevent land loss.
its not like the top start off massively bigger than the rest, its developed over a length of time. and until we see the affect of this bonus bounty in action from a round start and during a resistance, it will be nearly impossible to deduce the true effect of it in game, and therefore any counter measures. and that is my opinion on the subject and all suggestions related to the subject.
Reasonable at 5%, okay you said its reasonable but then failed to specifically explain why. Yeah yeah yeah yeah hinder the top thats the point of the ADREN RUSH not the 5% retal rule. So that argument is bullshit.
Who knows wtf you were trying to prove with the rest of the bullshit. Try waffling less.
But what is fundamental here is that the failure to address the main issue.
NOTHING SHOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR FREE.
I appreciate the new bounty rule. I agree with it actually, Im pro making the guys who are winning difficult. However Im against there being a mechanism where someone can use it for free.
So this is very simple; removing that 5% retaliation rule so that the rusher will atleast have a kind of detriment to think about. Yes he might only have a small acre count but then the top guy can gain too. (and at the very least it is an annoyance as minor as the guy who sends ~5mln RPGs at someone valued 100b score)
The last issue I would like to address was that someone mentioned not being able to deal with the attacks.
A harrier rush with -2 = atf3 =P How do you deal with that! lol
The point which I would like to make unequivocally clear is that nothing should be available for free. There should be advantage of doing something with a potential detriment which follows.
For those who cba to read this, summary: Adren rush bounty good - retal rule bad, so remove it.
I disagree
Disagreeing without justification is not an argument. It is arbitrary and useless which makes it redundant.
Or does that highlight that there is no reasonable justification for the disagreeing and you merely are displaying your opinion which is rather silly when you cant justify it.
Nice one.
(for the purpose of this thread im assuming you're disagreeing with the statement on topic, and it's not just a general statement!
)
webvictim
Harvester
I don't believe this. Are the people at the top HONESTLY complaining that someone who is under 5% of their size can send a few million troops at them and lose the lot without any fear of reprisal?
Even if the attacker makes more money in bounty and insurance than they lose in the value of the troops, if they do it repeatedly they will soon grow to the point where they can't hit the top without reprisals (as has already been pointed out in this thread). A few million RPGs hitting someone who is over twenty times their score is hardly even going to make a dent. Stop whining about it and live with the fact that it should be tough at the top as well. None of the other alliances can hit you thanks to 24/7 contactability and constant defence, what more do you want?
If you don't like being a target for hilariously small players, perhaps you should have thought about that before becoming a top player, bashing everyone lower than you and getting a 76% bounty on your head.
Even if the attacker makes more money in bounty and insurance than they lose in the value of the troops, if they do it repeatedly they will soon grow to the point where they can't hit the top without reprisals (as has already been pointed out in this thread). A few million RPGs hitting someone who is over twenty times their score is hardly even going to make a dent. Stop whining about it and live with the fact that it should be tough at the top as well. None of the other alliances can hit you thanks to 24/7 contactability and constant defence, what more do you want?
If you don't like being a target for hilariously small players, perhaps you should have thought about that before becoming a top player, bashing everyone lower than you and getting a 76% bounty on your head.
Tbh, I'm no where near the top and I think the system is flawed. It's a simple case of "nothing should come without any hint of risk".
Personally I think the solution should be to reduce the multipliers for adren rushes rather than remove the retal limit.
I dont think the balance issue of being able to use -2 with rush and the 5% rule was thought about when the bounty changes came in.
Before it was balanced - you could rush, lose troops and if you were under 5% then the damage to the defender wasn't TOO bad and atleast the guy attacking died and it was even.
Now i think that balance has been taken away.
Perhaps it was an oversight by Azzer.
Before it was balanced - you could rush, lose troops and if you were under 5% then the damage to the defender wasn't TOO bad and atleast the guy attacking died and it was even.
Now i think that balance has been taken away.
Perhaps it was an oversight by Azzer.
I appreciate your comment, to that extent I do agree with you. Complaining about a small guy hitting you is wrong, yeah thats okay. BUT! I feel that you kinda missed the point I’m afraid. So I will explain!
The complaint isn’t at the fact that small people can rush you, it’s at the fact that they can do so with no risk at all.
It just seems ludicrous to have a system without risk
The top guys get a big bounty for the manner which they played, then they get a bounty and someone can rush them. Okay that’s fine; it’s deserved because they have caused this bounty.
However when one analyses this one step further, it becomes quite clear that the punishment is taken one step too far.
It is disproportionate for anyone, regardless of their valuation, to have a mechanism in their favour, whereby there is no risk. Adrenaline rushing isn’t difficult, it’s rather easy to pass all significant defence and still land a profit.
The rushing is immune, which is the issue which I am having. Not the mere fact that it *can* happen at a profit.
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Dax
Hydroponics Developer
This; The man speaks sense 95% of the time - The other 5% is where I haven't seen him posting.
lol, the game must be pretty good if there is nothing more important then discussing if the retal rule should be in place.
anyway. dont remove it.
people at <5% dont have troops to pose you any threat, there for it should be risk free the other way around too.
anyway. dont remove it.
people at <5% dont have troops to pose you any threat, there for it should be risk free the other way around too.
I disagree.