A channel for a bot to answer basic questions.

[penguin]

Since IRC bots are banned in #bushtarion...
What if the channel I'm using is used for basic questions regarding bushtarion for everyone to access?

There are times when helpers are not online/in IRC, and there's always a chance that someone has a question about bushtarion. I'm thinking about having my channel as the channel to go to when helpers aren't around.. answering basic questions [and possibly more advanced in due time and with help]

I know people can wait for a couple of hours until a helper comes online, but what about those impatient people who want their questioned answered now.. or those questions whos [in the helpee's mind] answer needs to be quick and simple?

I admit, that my bot will need a heck of a lot more work to actually have her being used publicly, but once all the basics are done, it wouldn't be so bad..

I want to know what you think.
Yes or No and why if you feel like typing

 

[avash]

Obviously sounds like a good plan..implementing on the other hand will be much more difficult.

 

[TaO]

Sounds good..
Will require alot of effort tho..

 

[atsanjose]

1. who will program the bot? (you?)
2. can it be made user friendly? (new bushies are mostly new to irc too)
3. last time i heard helpers where just competing to answer the questions in the helpsection first.
4. aint it just easier to appoint new helpers?
5. most of the time new people dont even know what theyre trying to ask, how the hell should a program know what theyre talking about?

 

[Hobbezak]

Tbh, we have:
1. Request help ingame.
2. The help section on forums
3. Whenever I'm online, questions asked in #bushtarion are answered within minutes, either by helpers or just non-official helpers.
All three are ways to ask help, controlled by Azzer.

I see no need for this new channel, also I don't like the idea of doing this in another channel, and especially not when it's not owned by Azzer. Anything official should be owned by, and maintained by, Azzer.

But obviously, if you want to train new players, by all means, go ahead with your idea. But I don't think it should be made the official help channel.

 

[Steve_God]

In theory, a good idea...
In practice as a helper, the idea of giving a anything up to hundreds of stock responses for potential questions for a bot scares me, as many questions are based on a specific situation...
With 17 routes, to give a reply for each combination of attacks from one route to another in terms of giving advice about the best set-up, etc... would mean 289 different answers. And that's not taking into consideration the variations of having/not having the p-unit which for some routes will play a big part!
And then there's the basics about planting, making money, stealing land - and often it's not a case of just spouting out what it says in the manual, it's finding a different way for that particular player to understand what's in the manual.

Theory = good.
Practice = bad.
My vote's a no

 

[Dimitar]

Tbh, we have:
1. Request help ingame.
2. The help section on forums
3. Whenever I'm online, questions asked in #bushtarion are answered within minutes, either by helpers or just non-official helpers.
All three are ways to ask help, controlled by Azzer.

I see no need for this new channel, also I don't like the idea of doing this in another channel, and especially not when it's not owned by Azzer. Anything official should be owned by, and maintained by, Azzer.

But obviously, if you want to train new players, by all means, go ahead with your idea. But I don't think it should be made the official help channel.

I totally agree with Hobbe, #bushtarion is full of experienced players that have an answer to most (if not all) of the questions someone is likely to ask. The fact that people aren't offcial helpers doesn't mean they can't be helpful.

 

[Alcibiades]

There's little to be said that hasn't been said already. My vote is a no for the reasons Steve and Hobbes have already posted.

 

[MacMikey]

Mine is a no, I agree totally with Shadowbane on this one.

 

[Azzer]

Steve says it all, stock responses have always been a huge no-no for helpers, answers have to be personal to the user's own particular question, situation, and comprehension. (are they a complete beginner that needs it explained in long friendly baby steps? Are they clearly someone that knows how to play but just doesn't know how a particular mechanic of the game works so only need a brief non-patronising explanation? etc.)

 

[penguin]

Avash - It would be very difficult to keep up the responses and such for the bot I agree, that's why I said with help. I know I don't know everything about bushtarion, so in fact: I will need quite a bit of help with some questions.

Atsan - I will have to program the bot, yes. But like I stated above, I will need help with some questions being answered. It is user friendly. I have had a few people test it out [newer people] and they said it's great I am just suggesting it. And finally, there will be some sort of pastebin or URL the user can click to actually see the basics of the codes so they know what can be typed to get a response.

Hobbs - I agree that an official helper bot/channel should be owned and operated by Azzer himself, but I didn't say the official Azzer puts it in overview kind of thing, just a room that players can have access to at any time. - but I'm rethinking about it all. More at the bottom.

Steve_God - I understand the whole "There's a lot of combinations of answers" Thing. Ideally, the answers would be in simple terms, fully explained.. so on and so forth; However, I have seen a bot that does flak ratios from one unit to the other.. That's a lot of different combinations [roughly 2,209 not including HQ units and Government units.] so it can be done with a lot of work and time put into it.


Shadowbane - I never once said that the people who aren't helpers aren't helpful.

Azzer - that's why I'm even hesitant on this. I know people require different wording/length of responses.. so that's why I haven't done any further on this but mention it.

Thank you for your guys' input though
Now that I've been thinking about it more and more and with your guys' help, I wouldn't want it to be "Here's where you should go to get answers." But rather "Here's where you can go for some answers" to have the room there for quick access of information/units/techs/etc.. It wouldn't be just everything in general, but some basic questions that can be explained either in short details, or a long message. I fully agree with Azzer, that everyone is different.. and whomever said "can't just be quotes from the manual" [sorry I don't remember who it was].. There's a good chance the people asking have looked at the manual already etc.. to try and find their answer or just need it in different wording.

Clearly I didn't put much thought into it, but like many of my ideas, I think of them and if they seem like a good idea, I go into details - but I'll think of details since I'm going to 'better my bot' either way it goes [have my room as a general help channel or not {Leaning towards not}] so I will at least have access to this information..

Once again thank you.. and if I go further into detail with this.. I'll post more on it.

 

[Dimitar]

Shadowbane - I never once said that the people who aren't helpers aren't helpful.

I know you didn't, I never said you did. My point was that people can do a bot's job better, and so far we hadn't needed a bot, because people seem to be doing their job good enough, and most people on IRC are surprisingly friendly to newbies.
It's not that I don't think your idea is a good one, but it would take you days if not weeks to program such a bot in the way it's intended to be, and in the end it will probably just end up unused because as stated above, some of the newer players don't seem to know how to ask questions properly. And a living person is obviously more capable of understanding such a question.

 

[Alcibiades]

#bushtarion and forums function as a far better resource than one bot ever could. /thread

 

[Ezekiel]

I agree that the majority of questions are that asked in IRC are extremly specific, and getting a bot to give decent answers would be a pain in the arse.

But instead of thinking of it as a bot helper, what about thinking of it as an 'Interactive Manual'? Nothing ctrl + f couldn't really do but hey, its a cool novelty and could provide extra stuff like you said, like ratios, or a harv calc for newbies.

 

[Dimitar]

I don't like the idea of putting ratios in a manual of some kind, a unit's health and armour or health and armour damage is something unique that can be easily learned through observation. That's what a player's experience stands for. With the introduction of the nobreakspace addon most of the skill/experience related actions in the game were made automatical ( yes, I also use it but I stand by what I said ). Giving away specific ratios of units against other units will ruin the game imo.

 

[willymchilybily]

dontmind if or if not its done, clicked yes before reading responses. one sugestion penguin, as your'll no dobt do it any way whether official or not.

have the bot record questions it is unable to answer, so that the answer can be input.

also it may help if there is a tree/branch like structure for the user. i have a question on.

a) flacking
B) bounty
c) h/f
d) AR
e) stealing land

maybe even break it down further, attacking related and defence related. this would make it easier for a player who doesnt know how to word a technical question to the bot to go through and see if there is an answer to thier question.

ps. no idea the complexity of coding such a bot, but its the only way i can see i being of use to new/inexperienced players, that are impatient for a response.

agree that stating flak ratio's is a bit silly, you're best off using something like the best ratio's page to show a unit at its best. and still make the player think. what does that unit target. is it likely that ratio is flak or lethals etc. as being spoon fed wont be as interesting as thinking you have actually cracked something.

like the first time your order staff/units page but init, and realise there is another route you're route can do okay against. then you go and try it out. thats how people get hooked. finding exploiting mechanics, even if its common knowledge to an experienced player.

 

[Ezekiel]

I don't like the idea of putting ratios in a manual of some kind, a unit's health and armour or health and armour damage is something unique that can be easily learned through observation. That's what a player's experience stands for. With the introduction of the nobreakspace addon most of the skill/experience related actions in the game were made automatical ( yes, I also use it but I stand by what I said ). Giving away specific ratios of units against other units will ruin the game imo.

I didn't mean reveal the exact ratios, i meant if they wanted to code the ratio thread in. Do you think that thread ruins the game? Just gives newbies who aren't on the forum, access.

Besides that wasn't my point. My point was the angle at which to look at it.

 

[Dimitar]

it gives the MAX ratios, which are, in most cases, against gardeners and from penguin's post I understood she wanted to put in ratios of every single unit against every other unit.. in fact I'll just quote :

That's a lot of different combinations [roughly 2,209 not including HQ units and Government units.] so it can be done with a lot of work and time put into it.

 

[Ezekiel]

it gives the MAX ratios, which are, in most cases, against gardeners and from penguin's post I understood she wanted to put in ratios of every single unit against every other unit.. in fact I'll just quote :

That's a lot of different combinations [roughly 2,209 not including HQ units and Government units.] so it can be done with a lot of work and time put into it.

Well I meant the sort of ratios that are in that thread.

 

[Dimitar]

well there's a LOT of bots that give you the ratios from the forums thread, in fact penguin mentioned that in her post as well, please read up if you haven't.