Calm down

[Yochoko]

but i'm not french!!!! >.<

 

[Dimitar]

That's what you think

 

[Dark_Angel]

If you would come back for a new route but not for 500 new players then there is nothing I can say to that. Most of the problems in the game stem from having not enough players, not from a lack of aliens.

I'm not going to necro all the good suggestions because if we did that we'd be in exactly the same situation as we were. The best way to do it would be to put all the good suggestions in one thread with links to original posts rather than necroing threads, but we already did that and it didn't stop DA.

Nah. That doesn't work. Its nice to have all the best suggestions compiled in one place but discussing 10 suggestions in one thread would be a nightmare.

I can't believe you're still complaining about me bumping a thread for some fresh discussion (which, incidentally, has happened).

People can bump all the threads they want if they're hoping to get some fresh discussion. You can dislike that, you can post in response that you think it is the worst idea ever made - But, and as I've pointed out countless times in this thread, it is unhelpful and unwelcome to actively try and stifle the redevelopment of existing ideas just because you disagree with that way of doing things.

Here's something we can get some agreement on:

Most of the problems in the game stem from having not enough players, not from a lack of aliens.

Yeah. Nobody is or has ever argued that a lack of aliens is the root cause of all our problems. CF likes the idea though. I like the idea. If we want to put time into redeveloping it, who on earth are you to say "don't spend time doing that"?

Unapproved by DA: Meh.

 

[Twigley]

She's Frasian. I mean he.

 

[Dax]

 

[Yochoko]

She's Frasian. I mean he.

 

[Paul Aka Hailstone]

Calm down its only a commercial

 

[jamesNchina]

anyone ever notice that it's always the same 10 or so people who post on these forums? When at least every round there are a few new people who never post.
Ever notice that eventually towards the end of the thread it's the same 10 people accusing the other of being retarded or such other childish 'name' calling? And then proceed to post gifs (while largely very funny) do nothing but bash someone else. When a new person does on the rare occasion post an idea, one or all of the 10 people who dominate the forums first response is with a negative adjective such as stupid/retarded/lame/gay, after that it doesn't matter to the poster what constructive criticism you offer. Maybe a fresh idea is for you 10 prolific posters to mature somewhat and gain some decent social skills. Having said that, I can't wait for the insults and bashing to begin. Who's first to prove my point?

 

[Garrett2]

eh i think Yochoko's post here
http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82900&postcount=14
said it best. at this point, since the forums are calm, you are simply fanning the flames for your own amusement. no thank you sir.

 

[Alcibiades]

When a new person does on the rare occasion post an idea, one or all of the 10 people who dominate the forums first response is with a negative adjective such as stupid/retarded/lame/gay, after that it doesn't matter to the poster what constructive criticism you offer.

In all fairness, many new players don't receive constructive criticism particularly well, and so older players don't feel a need to be pleasant.

Many new ideas have been said before, and a simple search would have found the previous threads.

Many new ideas are, in fact, stupid. Good ones will be recognized as such, and bad ones will be denigrated for the gob spewing ***** they are. Ideas are rejected sometimes in what might seem to be a hasty manner by an "old timer" but that is because it's probably the 5th or 6th time this has been presented as a BRAND NEW IDEA and they are bored of it, and so their manner has become more curt, and more (as some would see it) rude. Nonsense, just impatience.

I resent the implication that we aren't sensible (there are some people who are driveling idiots, and they are well able to identify themselves); but there are many of us who are intelligent, rational, reasonable and logical people. We may not be nice, but we aren't irrational. (At least, not anymore than anyone else who is in a crap job with too much spare time )

 

[jamesNchina]

When a new person does on the rare occasion post an idea, one or all of the 10 people who dominate the forums first response is with a negative adjective such as stupid/retarded/lame/gay, after that it doesn't matter to the poster what constructive criticism you offer.

In all fairness, many new players don't receive constructive criticism particularly well, and so older players don't feel a need to be pleasant.

Many new ideas have been said before, and a simple search would have found the previous threads.

Many new ideas are, in fact, stupid. Good ones will be recognized as such, and bad ones will be denigrated for the gob spewing ***** they are. Ideas are rejected sometimes in what might seem to be a hasty manner by an "old timer" but that is because it's probably the 5th or 6th time this has been presented as a BRAND NEW IDEA and they are bored of it, and so their manner has become more curt, and more (as some would see it) rude. Nonsense, just impatience.

I resent the implication that we aren't sensible (there are some people who are driveling idiots, and they are well able to identify themselves); but there are many of us who are intelligent, rational, reasonable and logical people. We may not be nice, but we aren't irrational. (At least, not anymore than anyone else who is in a crap job with too much spare time )

>>> (At least, not anymore than anyone else who is in a crap job with too much spare time ) <<< LOL I believe that might be directed at me. Although I can't see how having a job that allows a shed load of spare time as being crap :/

But I guess maybe I didn't make my point completely clear....I didn't say all (or for that matter any- those words are not in my post) of you were irrational, not intelligent, or even not logical.. what I did say you are the ones who dominate the threads and is mostly because of "not being nice"(your words not mine).

Of course there are going to be ideas that the non prolific poster thinks are new and fresh.. but do we really expect that new person to go through days upon days of reading to find where it has been proposed (and shot down by the same 10-20 people out of a much larger player base) before?

The incentive of people presenting new ideas is to help make the game thrive instead of decline the way it has. Being rude and impatient to the new guy who is interested in this game growing is not necessary. It only drives him away from the forums and eventually away from the game that we would like to see survive. (hell if the guy is truly retarded as you accuse we want him to keep playing.. easy target!)

Is it not possible for people to just stfu and let the new guy give his idea. If it has been discussed 20 rounds ago and found not to be a good idea so what, just ignore it, don't make vile comments and the stupid idea will die off without being implemented. Is it not enough that veterans dominate the top ranks ingame? Is dominating the forums and IRC also necessary?
>>>>In all fairness, many new players don't receive constructive criticism particularly well<<< and you wonder why :/ this;>>and bad ones will be denigrated for the gob spewing ***** they are

 

[Yochoko]

anyone ever notice that it's always the same 10 or so people who post on these forums? When at least every round there are a few new people who never post.

i think that posting on forums isn't for everyone actually. i don't mean people aren't capable by saying this. it's just... not their thing! on any forum sites, there are always 'regular' people who post a lot. and since they post a lot, they stand out in view. but that doesn't mean they had/have the intention of dominating the forums. they just like to tell their opinions by posting. posting on forums is a habit that isn't easy at first. plus, lots of people just prefer reading what others say and observing the debate/argument rather than getting involved in it. tilllllllllllllllll they strongly agree/disagree about something and suddenly want to voice out what they think! i don't think any one on this forum (or any forums sites) is actually discouraging newcomers to voice their opinions. it's really about the 'habit' thing (or lazy to create a forum account :X), imo.

yeah, also some people maybe are scared that what they say would get criticized. but that is in their mind, they have to first win it over themselves to have enough courage to post. yes, getting flamed on the forums is a 'usual' thing. that's why people probably hesitate. but you know, it's not a kindergarten here or any forum sites. if you can't say anything without mum and dad to protect you, then, you probably shouldn't say anything and just read. in real life too, you can't expect to be always praised. you have to accept some criticism about yourself. people have different opinions about one subject and i find it interesting to see all those different ways of thinking!

i think making the forums a happy merry land where everyone greets you in smile, hugs and kisses you for whatever you say is delusional, far from reality. and people should face the reality. that's how i think. :S

but anyway, lots of people prefer being 'anonymous' online and don't care enough to voice their opinions. so, i don't think the current posters are influencing any ways for new people to post.

 

[jamesNchina]

anyone ever notice that it's always the same 10 or so people who post on these forums? When at least every round there are a few new people who never post.

i think that posting on forums isn't for everyone actually. i don't mean people aren't capable by saying this. it's just... not their thing! on any forum sites, there are always 'regular' people who post a lot. and since they post a lot, they stand out in view. but that doesn't mean they had/have the intention of dominating the forums. they just like to tell their opinions by posting. posting on forums is a habit that isn't easy at first. plus, lots of people just prefer reading what others say and observing the debate/argument rather than getting involved in it. tilllllllllllllllll they strongly agree/disagree about something and suddenly want to voice out what they think! i don't think any one on this forum (or any forums sites) is actually discouraging newcomers to voice their opinions. it's really about the 'habit' thing (or lazy to create a forum account :X), imo.

yeah, also some people maybe are scared that what they say would get criticized. but that is in their mind, they have to first win it over themselves to have enough courage to post. yes, getting flamed on the forums is a 'usual' thing. that's why people probably hesitate. but you know, it's not a kindergarten here or any forum sites. if you can't say anything without mum and dad to protect you, then, you probably shouldn't say anything and just read. in real life too, you can't expect to be always praised. you have to accept some criticism about yourself. people have different opinions about one subject and i find it interesting to see all those different ways of thinking!

i think making the forums a happy merry land where everyone greets you in smile, hugs and kisses you for whatever you say is delusional, far from reality. and people should face the reality. that's how i think. :S

but anyway, lots of people prefer being 'anonymous' online and don't care enough to voice their opinions. so, i don't think the current posters are influencing any ways for new people to post.

Well stated and well received. 8) IDK about other forum sites as this is the only one I have ever visited or posted on. I'm thankful that it isn't kindergarten I get enough of that in RL and toddlers can be brutal when they gang up on you But I can say some of the shall we say more hateful posts are like listening to some of my toddlers argue with each other. being greeted with a smile wouldn't be so bad... hugs and kisses, well maybe if there was a way to selectively receive them based on the sender

 

[Dark_Angel]

When a new person does on the rare occasion post an idea, one or all of the 10 people who dominate the forums first response is with a negative adjective such as stupid/retarded/lame/gay, after that it doesn't matter to the poster what constructive criticism you offer.

In all fairness, many new players don't receive constructive criticism particularly well, and so older players don't feel a need to be pleasant.

Many new ideas have been said before, and a simple search would have found the previous threads.

Many new ideas are, in fact, stupid. Good ones will be recognized as such, and bad ones will be denigrated for the gob spewing ***** they are. Ideas are rejected sometimes in what might seem to be a hasty manner by an "old timer" but that is because it's probably the 5th or 6th time this has been presented as a BRAND NEW IDEA and they are bored of it, and so their manner has become more curt, and more (as some would see it) rude. Nonsense, just impatience.

I resent the implication that we aren't sensible (there are some people who are driveling idiots, and they are well able to identify themselves); but there are many of us who are intelligent, rational, reasonable and logical people. We may not be nice, but we aren't irrational. (At least, not anymore than anyone else who is in a crap job with too much spare time )

It is the mark of an educated mine to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

Time and time again, Alci, it is the argument of people like you that you are warranted in your complete write-off of suggestions as 'gob spewing *****' in that you aren't always nice but that, then, you don't need to be.

Indeed being 'nice' is that bit something extra in response to suggestions. It would be nice for you to be nice and constructive in your feedback so that, more than anything else, the person who has taken time to come up with that idea doesn't go away feeling dispirited and worthless as a community member.

It is one thing to stretch to being nice, though (yes, we get it - You're not a 'nice' person - you seem to hold this particular trait as a quality) and another to be actively hostile/rude.

What you (and various others) don't seem to understand, and never have, is that nobody is crying out for you to be 'nice' - People are asking you not to be rude. If you can't stretch to that, you should refrain from posting atall IMO - because your response, however informed, isn't by my standards (and many others, including the OP I'm sure) welcome.

I dismiss, as ever, allegations I'm looking through rose tinted spectacles in what I want from the community. I very simply don't want new users to feel they can't submit new suggestions for fear they'll be jeered at/condemned - which, ultimately, may lead to them abandoning the forums altogether. At any cost, that needs to be prevented.

 

[Alcibiades]

anyone ever notice that it's always the same 10 or so people who post on these forums? When at least every round there are a few new people who never post.

i think that posting on forums isn't for everyone actually. i don't mean people aren't capable by saying this. it's just... not their thing! on any forum sites, there are always 'regular' people who post a lot. and since they post a lot, they stand out in view. but that doesn't mean they had/have the intention of dominating the forums. they just like to tell their opinions by posting. posting on forums is a habit that isn't easy at first. plus, lots of people just prefer reading what others say and observing the debate/argument rather than getting involved in it. tilllllllllllllllll they strongly agree/disagree about something and suddenly want to voice out what they think! i don't think any one on this forum (or any forums sites) is actually discouraging newcomers to voice their opinions. it's really about the 'habit' thing (or lazy to create a forum account :X), imo.

yeah, also some people maybe are scared that what they say would get criticized. but that is in their mind, they have to first win it over themselves to have enough courage to post. yes, getting flamed on the forums is a 'usual' thing. that's why people probably hesitate. but you know, it's not a kindergarten here or any forum sites. if you can't say anything without mum and dad to protect you, then, you probably shouldn't say anything and just read. in real life too, you can't expect to be always praised. you have to accept some criticism about yourself. people have different opinions about one subject and i find it interesting to see all those different ways of thinking!

i think making the forums a happy merry land where everyone greets you in smile, hugs and kisses you for whatever you say is delusional, far from reality. and people should face the reality. that's how i think. :S

but anyway, lots of people prefer being 'anonymous' online and don't care enough to voice their opinions. so, i don't think the current posters are influencing any ways for new people to post.

This. If people are put off by rudeness, then they shouldn't be in the real world.

DA, you are so seeing the world through rose tinted spectacles. You are a delusional optimist, and while it's nice to want to have everyone "play nice" it's a futile hope, and you could probably direct your energies to something more productive.

Criticism can be constructive and harsh, and I'm very rarely rude to new players (i'm usually quite patient, until they turn around and treat me like ****, then I just give my condescension and anger free rein). It is only to older players who should know better, or ones who are acting like complete imbeciles to whom I am rude. Perhaps before you wield wide ranging accusations, you should dig a little deeper.

I never deliberately set out to dominate these forums. I was very much in the shoes of the people Yochoko was describing, I never got involved in forums til i screwed up the courage to do so, and I had a bunch of ideas slapped down, crushed, annihilated and I'm fine! I was treated like **** by so many players on here that I doubt I could ever count them all out. You act like this is the first time the Bushtarion forums have ever had assholes on them, or people who were mildly rude. I have seen far worse than the worst of what these so called "Bushtarion 10" are doing now, criticism in online forums is not a new thing, nor is it a curable thing, and it shouldn't be. People have to learn how to deal with ****. I am now rank 1 in posts, and in fame on here, despite my own best efforts to reduce the amount i'm playing/posting this game is remarkably persistent; and I'd say I learned how to deal with idiots on here to some extent, and definitely learned how to interact with a wide spectrum of people (from dribbling idiots to certifiable geniuses) I certainly never set out to make bushtarion my personal fiefdom, and I certainly never got anywhere close to that. I am rude to those who deserve it, and patient with those who need it. I resent any and all implications that I'm rude to new players, that's just plain wrong.

Either way, I see nothing wrong with exposing people to the kind of world they will be living in, the world is hard, sarcastic, cruel, and downright rude most of the time. (I am not that bad all the time, but a few moments of reminders every once in a while about how hard the public sphere can be is not unwarranted.)

You are doing more damage being cuddly and coddling them DA, then I am doing by being harsh, but honest. Honesty is good, delusions are bad.

EDIT: James: that bit about jobs was in reference more to people like me (servers, waiters, crappy dead end jobs lol)

 

[tobapopalos]

I'm going to skate over the ensuing ****-throwing contest and just respond to James' original point.

Firstly, as Garrett has said, by bumping this thread and criticising those of us who have posted on it, can you really, seriously, think you are any better than us? You claim to not condone "childish name-calling" and whatnot, but your recent posts aimed towards me, and your attitude on IRC, have been rude and childish themselves. Try not to be a hypocrit.

Secondly, I think new players are often given plenty of leeway when it comes to both posting on forums and asking questions on IRC. I'll always try and be nice to a name I don't recognise on forums/IRC purely because we're in desperate need of new players and we can't just drive them away because they don't know everything yet. And I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way...except Dimitar. He's a dick

 

[Alcibiades]

Secondly, I think new players are often given plenty of leeway when it comes to both posting on forums and asking questions on IRC. I'll always try and be nice to a name I don't recognise on forums/IRC purely because we're in desperate need of new players and we can't just drive them away because they don't know everything yet. And I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way...except Dimitar. He's a dick

This as well.

I find that often though, you'll get newbies who think they know everything, and won't listen to you no matter what, and as a result they get upset about this game and leave on their own accord, without us having done a damn thing. Players leave for more reasons than being treated badly.

And yes, Dimitar is a dick

 

[Garrett2]

lol DA, lol internet.

meanwhile at the halls of justice....

 

[Dark_Angel]

anyone ever notice that it's always the same 10 or so people who post on these forums? When at least every round there are a few new people who never post.

i think that posting on forums isn't for everyone actually. i don't mean people aren't capable by saying this. it's just... not their thing! on any forum sites, there are always 'regular' people who post a lot. and since they post a lot, they stand out in view. but that doesn't mean they had/have the intention of dominating the forums. they just like to tell their opinions by posting. posting on forums is a habit that isn't easy at first. plus, lots of people just prefer reading what others say and observing the debate/argument rather than getting involved in it. tilllllllllllllllll they strongly agree/disagree about something and suddenly want to voice out what they think! i don't think any one on this forum (or any forums sites) is actually discouraging newcomers to voice their opinions. it's really about the 'habit' thing (or lazy to create a forum account :X), imo.

yeah, also some people maybe are scared that what they say would get criticized. but that is in their mind, they have to first win it over themselves to have enough courage to post. yes, getting flamed on the forums is a 'usual' thing. that's why people probably hesitate. but you know, it's not a kindergarten here or any forum sites. if you can't say anything without mum and dad to protect you, then, you probably shouldn't say anything and just read. in real life too, you can't expect to be always praised. you have to accept some criticism about yourself. people have different opinions about one subject and i find it interesting to see all those different ways of thinking!

i think making the forums a happy merry land where everyone greets you in smile, hugs and kisses you for whatever you say is delusional, far from reality. and people should face the reality. that's how i think. :S

but anyway, lots of people prefer being 'anonymous' online and don't care enough to voice their opinions. so, i don't think the current posters are influencing any ways for new people to post.

DA, you are so seeing the world through rose tinted spectacles. You are a delusional optimist, and while it's nice to want to have everyone "play nice" it's a futile hope, and you could probably direct your energies to something more productive.

You are doing more damage being cuddly and coddling them DA, then I am doing by being harsh, but honest. Honesty is good, delusions are bad.

Nothing wrong with honesty, I just massively disagree that in being honest you also have to be cruel (two words that seem synonymous by your understanding).

in real life too, you can't expect to be always praised. you have to accept some criticism about yourself.

I'm very well aware that everyone needs to be open to some criticism. My desire is for everyone to be treated with a baseline of respect, not for everyone to be praised for even very silly suggestions. That isn't what I'm asking for at all.

The bottom line is this Alci, and I can put it no clearer: You can say what you need to say about a suggestion, you can reduce it to rubble with your honest opinion of why it won't work, without being rude. And by rude I mean the obvious, implying the OP is an idiot or some kind of retard - as is quite often the case with the tone of a lot of responses.

If you can't do that - If you can't give someone feedback without resorting to condescension/hostility then you're guilty of two things:

A) Poor command of the English language (An argument littered with insults smacks of a poorly thought out argument and an inability to phrase why something is a bad idea without calling someone or implying someone is a fool). (Garrett is probably most guilty on this charge, he can't respond to any argument without resorting to an attack on character).

B) Being a bully - In as much as you find it amusing/entertaining to use your spare time to belittle/attack the sincere efforts of users to make something better. (Over the internet, no less).

 

[Garrett2]

hey DA, i don't read your rubbish anymore, but as the thread is titled. calm down.

you are wound way too tightly. perhaps if you found someone that would give you a hug or something someday.