• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Bushtarion is revolved around activity

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
As the title states, the problem is that bush requires a decent amount of activity to be competitive. And if you are not playing competitively then it isn't quite as fun.

There have been changes to fix this problem, such as injury (which I must say, at its new level is rather good, in my opinion)

That’s the problem, so my first solution to this would be a simple change in sleepmode which makes sleepmode more convenient.

At the moment sleepmode is only available from times 8hrs 24hrs 72hrs 1 week and 2 weeks. That is not very helpful as there maybe smaller periods of time where you do not wish to play the game.

So I suggest that a 4 hour and a 2 hour sleepmode can be introduced to enable smaller offline periods so using sleepmode isnt quite so much of a pain. This would encourage the use of sleepmode so activity wouldn't be quite so needed.


My second suggestion is to change the rules of sleepmode at the moment. There is one line in the conditions I am not keen on:

* An account in sleep mode gains a maximum of 15% normal seed gain, and all research/construction development stops whilst asleep.

First of all the research time stopping is a little silly. In my opinion research time should be doubled, as it will still hinder the sleepmode user, and people may still choose not to use it, but not altogether punish the player because he cannot be online all the time.
Secondly the seed gain at 15% is rather low. If this could be increased to maybe 30-40% this would not completely discourage sleepmode but there is still a decent income gained not at a huge amount so people who choose sleepmode will receive far less income than usual but that is the cost of a safe account.

So to conclude, sleepmode, in my opinion is the solution to a less active demanding bushtarion.
 

Darryl

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
273
Location
East Midlands
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

Why not just have a box to input the number of ticks you'd like to go into sleepmode for? Genuine question, if we're going to keep adding more options, why not just let people enter the exact time they want to be in sleep for?
 

Polo

Garden Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,005
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I agree sleepmode (or a variant of it) is the perfect concept to reduce the activity required to play the game.

I said the following in f0xx's account sitting thread:
Polo said:
It's a nice idea...but as Rosa says, that's what sleep mode is for.

How about changing sleepmode somewhat though? I haven't put much thought into this but anyway:
- You can be attacked in "sleep mode".
- You get 70-90% injury in "sleep mode".
- You get 70-90% income in "sleep mode".
- You cannot send out any attacks or defence in "sleep mode".
- Possibly your max land grab is reduced also?
These changes provide enough benefits to make "sleep mode" viable/useful but do not overpower it either.
 

harriergirl

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,200
Location
Hillsville VA, USA
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I know I've been bitter as of late, but this is one of the best options I've heard in a while... If you insist on staying with injury.

You know I never used to understand why melni got his panties so twisted when someone brought up bounty, until injury was introduced... but I digress.

The activity demand has indeed increased over the years, especially if you want any sort of respectable finish, no matter what your goal.

I endorse this idea fully :)
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I must say I didn't read that post of yours polo in f0xx's account sitting thread (I disagreed with the idea). But the same thing entered my mind, what if you could be attacked whilst in sleepmode but I considered them too radical and had no chance of being implimented =P

But I do like the concept. Less income and a much higher injury rate if in sleepmode but can still be attacked, as opposed to nearly no income techs stop and unable to recieve income.

It is a better suggestion as my fear is that too many of the playerbase would go into sleepmode when unable to be online therefore taking away the war of the game. So to sum up my rambling I agree with polos suggestion


Darryl said:
Why not just have a box to input the number of ticks you'd like to go into sleepmode for? Genuine question, if we're going to keep adding more options, why not just let people enter the exact time they want to be in sleep for?

Perhaps too flexable? Also it doesnt address the other issues such as techs stopped and next to no income. But that definatly would be an improvement.


Combined with the lower base injury rates I think this will be a positive improvement, in my opinion, that should be able to address the problem that is the amount of activity the game requires
 

harriergirl

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,200
Location
Hillsville VA, USA
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

Darryl said:
Why not just have a box to input the number of ticks you'd like to go into sleepmode for? Genuine question, if we're going to keep adding more options, why not just let people enter the exact time they want to be in sleep for?


No baby, there should definitely be a limit, maybe let them pick an amount in at least 2 hr chunks though?
 

pinpower

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
2,136
Location
Bournemouth
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I prefer your initial ideas silence...with maybe 40-50% seed growth...development doubles (but obviously not permanently...just taking 2 ticks for each 1 tick to click down on the dev time while in sleep mode) and with more options for times...

I would suggest (like you said): 2 hours, 4 Hours, 8 Hours, 1,2 and 3 days and then the usual 1 week/2 week.

Possibly even with a time between 8 and 24 hours...16 hours???

Anyway, one of the best suggestions i have seen in a long time!
x
 

f0xx

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
2,195
Location
Plovdiv/Bulgaria
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I really don't see how any sleeping mode suggestion can decrease the need of activity. I don't get attacked at all when I am in a top ally, especially at the moment, but I still stay online.

The top players are those that are putting most activity in, so your suggestion should be aimed to how to make it un-necessery that they should be online, and therefore the burn-out of top players would be less.

Average players are those who put in average/small activity, so they should be those who gain most from such suggestion without being online.

I don't see how cutting someone's income is beneficial for them. Not to mention that they are not online to defend their mates, so it is not beneficial for the people in their ally too.

[edit] Although this suggestion is still better than nothing, I do not see how it will make the game less activity demanding. The top alliance players would still need to be online to be able to steal land, send attacks, send defences. Same goes for average alliance players.

The only kind of players that in my oppinion can find it beneficial to use that sleep mode option, are the solo players, and I am fed up of the fact how easy this game is for solos. That is the first thing that started to kill the game, please lets not make it even easier for solos.
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

Im sorry f0xx, I like you, but did you read the suggestion at all? =P

It isnt directed at the small proportion of the playerbase who is willing to put in the effort. It is aimed at the majority, like myself who cannot put in the effort and requre a method of protection which is an improvement of the sleepmode.

It wont necessarily only help solos as alliance players who will be "uncontactable" will not be crippled by the 15% income and techs being stopped. Rather than risk being 0ed by a hostile sleepmode will be a more attractive option which would then lower the activity demands of the game.

I didn't suggest sleepmode to be made amazing, just an improvement of what it currently is, it will still hinder the user but not to such a great extent. In otherwords the "price" of using sleepmode needs to be reduced

By all means, f0xx, you can be contactable 24/7 to avoid being 0ed, but I'd rather enjoy this game without so much of a activity problem.
 

f0xx

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
2,195
Location
Plovdiv/Bulgaria
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

First of all, I like you too, but do you really think I will comment the suggestion at all if I haven't bothered to read it? I respect you that is why I bothered to read and write a reply, even if it is a negative one. If you were some nubje I would simply ignore you and move on :p

Now, my point is that noone in the top alliances would prefer this suggestion after the round has been decided, not to mention that this is highly abusable for players who are going for the win and are rushing for developments at the start.

No matter how you modify sleep mode, at the end it will still damage the one who is using it, that is why people would still prefer not to use it.

I am not going to be posting anymore replies as this will turn into a "my suggestion is better than yours" contest in the end.
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

lol <3

But its not abusable as tech times should be doubled and incomes only at 40%. Therefore taking Hell as a example, their acre count is 193,061 40% of that comes to 77224.4 putting their acre count just above of the rank 2 ally, so they cannot afford to use sleepmode based on the new figures :p

Secondly if they used sleepmode their techs would slow (doubled time is what I quoted at first) - enabling the rest of the playerbase to catchup or overtake them in techs. So Im sorry but I cannot see how my original idea is abusable.



Although Im not sure why I bother as Azzer won't read the suggestion or post his opinion :p
 

kyx

Harvester
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
171
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

Great idea.... Azzer should have implemented something like this long ago.
 

atsanjose

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
1,659
Location
Netherlands, Brabant
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

i like the suggestion, not for all the reasons that have been called out yet but for the fact that then their is no reason anymore to call/text/wake up people anymore because theyre in sleepmode :D

would love to see it implented
 

Slavess

Weeder
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
13
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

As much as it would be nice not to wake up and find you have been pwned and lost a lot of land, the problem i see with being able to enter sleep for short amount of times is that when you are on there will be no where near as many targets and it would make it a lot more difficult for players to grow...
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

...explained in polos post. Please read all the posts before replying otherwise its just not worth voicing your opinion without all the knowledge
 

DR4545

Pruner
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
92
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I like the idea of shorter sleep mode options with a bit more seeds (maybe 30-40%) But, if you get down to increments of one hour or so it could be slightly abusable to keep safe while injured, and still stocking up on seeds so there is little to no drawback.

I disagree with the idea of being attackable in sleep mode, even with 70-90% injuries. A solo could be raped into the ground and log in with half their previous acres. Yeah, they come back with most of their troops but the damage is done.

If you make people attackable in sleep mode, even with more cushioning, it ultimately defeats the purpose. Since the goal is to make activity LESS necessary, I disagree with the idea of being attackable. (Although, in general, I like this idea but it doesn't make sense in the context of this thread to make activity a smaller component of success.) If we make people attackable in sleep, they would need to be defendable in sleep so they won't be free acres for anyone.

If we make the drawbacks to sleep mode too lax, and the duration too customizable we could wind up with Invulnerability Mode, where solo/alliance players are effectively never offline, so can sit on their troops and send out when desired at little cost. So care should be taken not to make the drawbacks so lax people just wind up never being killable.
 

DR4545

Pruner
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
92
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

I just had a thought about the attackable sleep mode idea. If a player gets 70-90% injuries back and is a solo, they can easily spike their AR mod without taking much in losses. It makes it pretty abusable, and unbalanced even when not a deliberate move to abuse the system.
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
UK
Re: Bushtarion is revolved around activity

You should be able to have an advantage over someone if you play more hours per day than them.
I think this sleep mode things would have the reverse effect it's intended to have.

If i am a player with 10 hours activity a day and then suddenly others can do just aswell by going to sleepmode ... i dont want to become as active and lose interest in the game...

Less attacks in the game due to people being more inactive = less wars = stagnant rounds = less players = 2 steps back
 
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