Ending Powerblocks :(

[Mateeen]

mk.. since ive read all posts on the last 10 pages >< i thought id add in my comment as well

I'm part of TBA, but only because i go where ever JJ goes, and that is because we go to the same school, and also because he introduced me to Bush. (on a sidenote, since round 26 or 27, JJ has brought ATLEAST 10 active 6-10 hour activity a day guys into bushtarion, yay night cover)

Anyways, yes, i wont join a power block again, simply because ive been bored as hell this round

When JJ got me to join 20-ish days into round 26, or 27.. i do not remember, he had made an ally on his own called "woodlands"(the name of our school), he was in the top 50 with massive troops while all of us were rank 500ish, our ally was around rank 15ish. All JJ did was defend us while we learned about the game. I stole to 17k in 4 days (something i boasted about for a loong time) and all i remember is going to sleep one night, only to wake up with 8k land the next day and no troops...

What i think is the problem is that the most ACTIVE, CONTACTABLE, and experienced (not in caps because 'experience' comes really easily in bush) players of bush ALWAYS make ONE stacked ally. This round, if the power blocked wasnt formed, WH would have won the round in less than 10 days, and it would've been the same old same old for me and many other players who would steal, get owned, steal, get owned.
Also, from Ahead i have learned that next round there is an ally with the best line up hes ever seen, i saw some of the line up, and if hes serious, the next round will be just as boring as this round. i might as well quit now, because those guys are all contactable, all active for more than 12 hours a day, and have all the necessary "experience", yes, they will win the round in less than a week and then we will have the same old thing seed whoring to bottomfeed going on

What needs to happen is these experienced and active players to start splitting and making thier own allys just like JJ did in round 26 and start recruiting players so we can get more active allys in the game who actively war each other..

EDIT: a suggestion that just popped into my mind, as soon as an ally hits rank 1 or 2, they get no insurance what so ever, so they are left open to rushes/resistances, so there will be a good turnover of allys in rank 1 and 2 and more killing

 

[Polo]

What i think is the problem is that the most ACTIVE, CONTACTABLE, and experienced (not in caps because 'experience' comes really easily in bush) players of bush ALWAYS make ONE stacked ally. This round, if the power blocked wasnt formed, WH would have won the round in less than 10 days, and it would've been the same old same old for me and many other players who would steal, get owned, steal, get owned.
Also, from Ahead i have learned that next round there is an ally with the best line up hes ever seen, i saw some of the line up, and if hes serious, the next round will be just as boring as this round. i might as well quit now, because those guys are all contactable, all active for more than 12 hours a day, and have all the necessary "experience", yes, they will win the round in less than a week and then we will have the same old thing seed whoring to bottomfeed going on

What needs to happen is these experienced and active players to start splitting and making thier own allys just like JJ did in round 26 and start recruiting players so we can get more active allys in the game who actively war each other..

I made my own alliance this round...War? Huh? The players I recruited came from many different "groups" and some players I'd never even played with before.

 

[Mateeen]

The players you recruited are all players who are really really good and should not even be allowed to be in the same ally
I attacked you guys at 2 30 GMT at night and you had 15 defending >< that imo is just "retarded" :\

Martin, f0xx, cb1202, no-daichi, kuda, alci...

Tbh, *atleast* Martin and f0xx, bieng the old good players that they are, should make thier own allies so we get more circulation of newbies + experienced players in top allies.. a person shudnt HAVE to be contacble to be in a FTW ally imo

And, im not saying that you took the people from the same group, you just took all the good ones and made a super ally

A super stacked ally just isnt fun to play against...

 

[Inferno]

What i think is the problem is that the most ACTIVE, CONTACTABLE, and experienced (not in caps because 'experience' comes really easily in bush) players of bush ALWAYS make ONE stacked ally. This round, if the power blocked wasnt formed, WH would have won the round in less than 10 days, and it would've been the same old same old for me and many other players who would steal, get owned, steal, get owned.
Also, from Ahead i have learned that next round there is an ally with the best line up hes ever seen, i saw some of the line up, and if hes serious, the next round will be just as boring as this round. i might as well quit now, because those guys are all contactable, all active for more than 12 hours a day, and have all the necessary "experience", yes, they will win the round in less than a week and then we will have the same old thing seed whoring to bottomfeed going on

What needs to happen is these experienced and active players to start splitting and making thier own allys just like JJ did in round 26 and start recruiting players so we can get more active allys in the game who actively war each other..

I made my own alliance this round...War? Huh? The players I recruited came from many different "groups" and some players I'd never even played with before.

Indeed, i have never played with Polo, but martin had been watching me (weirdo) /heard of me, spot opened up and he put me forward. although i have played (quite) a few rounds (since R11/R12?) i have always kept myself to myself, took over leadership of United_Nations for a few rounds, blah blah blah (infact i cant remember my point now)....ah yes, polo tells truth in his post. And i *hope* i have performed OK for polo.

much love.

 

[tobapopalos]

The players you recruited are all players who are really really good and should not even be allowed to be in the same ally
I attacked you guys at 2 30 GMT at night and you had 15 defending >< that imo is just "retarded" :\

Martin, f0xx, cb1202, no-daichi, kuda, alci...

Tbh, *atleast* Martin and f0xx, bieng the old good players that they are, should make thier own allies so we get more circulation of newbies + experienced players in top allies.. a person shudnt HAVE to be contacble to be in a FTW ally imo

And, im not saying that you took the people from the same group, you just took all the good ones and made a super ally

A super stacked ally just isnt fun to play against...

That's stupid. Why would someone deliberately avoid recruiting people he knows are good players?

 

[Mateeen]

He wouldn't, except if the good players were recruiting themselves

hurray for competition over recruiting people!

 

[Rosa]

This is actually a pretty stupid thread.... You won't destroy the power block with your admin powers because it's "not fair to them". However, you're considering putting a rule against powerblocking on the EULA.... How is this fair to players who got bashed to hell by the power block? What if they want to make a power block of their own next round just to give the power block this round a bit of revenge?

You'll be using your admin powers to stop other people from making power blocks but you won't end the one now?

 

[IceOfFire]

I think what the game needs is a clear divide in groups of players. For example a number of rounds ago you had a clear divide in player groups.

R25 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew / Podunk and co.
R26 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew (rama leading).
R27 - Twigleys crew and Iofs merged into a 2 wing all SA piss about.
R28 - Podunks crew / Bit of random / Lukeys crew
R29 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew / Ogluks crew (Which had a fair few of iofs old crew fighting v Twigleys crew)
R30 - "Twigleys group" (Even though its not just mine its always said to be / Iofs group / Ogluks group.

(24 - Ramas crew which had lots of "Iofs crew")
(23 - Iofs crew / Lukeys crew)
(22 - Ramas crew)


So ...
Clear divide?
Just took at the last 6 or more rounds there is a clear divide in players and there is alot of "hate" or to word it better rivalry that has been created by past rounds.

Beat me to it dam u!

 

[Stass]

A bit off topic but everytime i asked in the past for somebody that kept saying psolo overpowered what exactly is the part that makes it so overpowered i never got a reply, at least never a decent one.
Maybe if i ask now what exactly psolo's had in the past over normal solo's that made them so overpowered i could get an answer ?
I don't want to appear like i slap those ppl over their faces but i made several calcs with what mobs might be sent to several solo's and how bad they'd get pwned and i got to conclusion that psolo's where pretty weak, especially higher on ranks. Except bunkers any other route was just dust in wind so i welcome anybody to explain why where the psolo's overpowered.
Hell we farmed solo's for a living in Pestiferous with one going for the kill and 6 others waiting to wave for free acres so i'm yet to see evidence psolo's where overpowered.
My personal opinion is that psolo was a popular choice and the allied players didn't like to be against something that doesn't share the same treatement like them. Probably most of the moaning about psolo's beeing overpowered came from the bitterness that you couldn't just press a on all units and send with 3 members more and also you didn't get to see the solo's ar level to calculate your mob either. Also it was distressing to see your alliance had to deal with all the **** and constant waving while psolo's had a more relaxed policy of getting zeroed once a week or so and just chill without putting anything near the effort allied players put in. But what you expect .. solo has to defend 1, allies have to defend 20 .. it's obvious it's more action in an alliance .. was just a matter of preference.

I would also like this answered... i dont see how they are over powered and i agree with others that the lack of pure solo has added to the powerblock.
I have been a high ranked p-solo in the past and often wondered why i wasnt getting smashed alot more often then i was. i guess as DS said it is too hard if u cant just type 'a' for all units. Personally i find attacking solos easier than attacking allies if u find them with low enough a/r (a/r doesnt stay at 90% forever).
P-solo seems a great way for the less active to play rather than joining a powerblock to feel their troops/land is safer.

and if someone could give a decent reason as to why p-solo is overpowered how about bringing it back as pure i.e. no p-naps? would that cancel it's overpowerdness out?

sorry for being a little off topic
back on topic yeah power blocks are bad... i agree that this is something that should be shunned by the player base and not really dealt with by admin/gov.
Although i have been trying to come up with a way it could be, unfortunately everything i think of has some other bad implications so is not worth posting

 

[Hobo]

just to try to offer some ideas.... its been a while since i was active and the reasons for that are varied some life some game. I haven't spent money for a while and i want to offer two reasons for that. I hope they are on topic and i then have a couple of ideas that may or may not help. There will be problems, or issues, with them but then i am not Azzer, or for that matter an alliance player but having played for a lot of years it would be a shame to see this game disappear or be seriously danmaged because of the current situation.

1) Although much maligned the Solo and bounty system of fame and law enabled those larger alliances to be hit by smaller players, be it one alliance or three working together. This in my opinion, at least weakened them and maybe would help lower allys jump on after an attack, a lot of resistances used to use solos to help. I am aware there are problems with that system.
My thoughts with this are, if in game mechanics cant really been used to prevent powerblocking, then maybe in game players can be. They could be allied or solo, rewards, or units, or land or something for attacking up could be won. This could be linked to bounty but if that word is outdated or from previous ages then a new system of something along the same lines might be worth thinking about. The system had flaws

2) If there is an ally powerblock so soon ( and from what i can tell so large) after the removal of the pure solo option, i cant help but think there may be a relationship. With regard to the financing of the game, and I have to guess here, if there were a lot of solo players did the majority of them go Punit? on a lot of routes if your playing on your own you really, for the most part, need it. Unless there are a lot of apac/strikers out there or similar. I would be interested to know how many solos are in the game at the moment or the difference from the last few rounds.

3) Smaller alliances numbers - for two reasons. It could ( though not sure if it would) spread out the experienced players a little more and maybe bring back some of the fighting spirit to the game. I understand that friends want to play together, though 60 seems a little excessive, if numbers are reduced maybe they start playing for the win against each other instead of with each other. When i play squash with a friend i want to win and whoever does we are still friends at the end of it. I know this is a team game, but if the player base is less numerous or active then spreading their numbers around seems to be an idea?
The second reason is competition, to win is always good ( not that i would know!) but to win a competitive match is much more enjoyable, you can gain a sense of achievement from that. Smaller numbers would, of course, still mean active players, or the good players would win, but that's normal. I also know that this in itself would not stop power blocks, but it might make their actions more punishable by the player base itself by facing 20/30 players instead of 60.
Someone with more experience than me might be able to say this would be stupid but i offer the idea anyway.

Just some quick thoughts...

1) A bush UN, when there is a powerblock there are sanctions, reduce grabs, troops defect, land becomes useless apart from score. Disaster at the alliance because they are too busy looking after their friends ally instead of their own

2) Ally AR? Although i dont know the mechanics it is probably too easily to abuse.

thats it... no idea of how useful it is, but felt i had to try to do something to help and hope that bush can get back to being the fun competitive crazy game it was.


Hobo

 

[septimus]

I would like to see the old L/F system back, I realize it had its flaws, but it did give people at lower ranks more of an incentive to rush the top ranks, as they typically had the highest bounties. I'm not a fan of the base bounty system, at all, I just don't see much of a point in it, i suppose to some small extent it gives people a reason to stay on an attack they might ordinarily recall, but, it's still just a question of what they'll lose v the bounty they'll gain.

In terms of helping out a resistance perhaps some kind of dynamic insurance?(iirc that did exist at one point?) The current system, with the top ally(s) generally stocking seeds when they hit a certain level makes it that much more difficult for a resistance to succeed, because they damage you deal out is decreased significantly by the insurance they get back. Something where your allies rank directly affects your insurance level? Maybe like 5% if your ally is rank 1, 10% for rank 2, etc. but with a cap of 35 or 40%, so that you don't get people starting 1 man allies for 100% insurance.

As for the question of whether it is better to have clearly divided "sides" time after time. I'd say so long as they don't powerblock at all, it is a good thing. I've played this game for a few rounds now, and fairly recently started getting "noticed" by top players, which got me invites into better allies. It's not impossible to get there, you just gotta work on constantly improving yourself. Spots always open up in those top allies. The rivalries created by the same groups ruling round after round have a huge impact on lower allies, the playful hatred between them means that in general they will war more amongst the top allies, which limits the amount of waves and bashes on the mid level allies, which allows them to fight more allies their size, trickle down effect and all that.

As for the actual topic at hand of how to prevent powerblocks, a genuine rule in the EULA would be too difficult to enforce, frankly a blanket statement by Azzer that is intentionally open ended would be a better system. Azzer is more involved, and has a bettr grasp of what is going on in this game then the admins/owners of alot of other games I've played. I believe he'd be fair in handing out punishments for powerblocks and coalitions. But, generally, it should be on the players to prevent it. Hopefully the lessons learned this round will keep the top players from doing it again, in which case the group of people best suited to fighting it(IE the top veterans) will be able to stop it in the future.

Anyway, congratulations to JJ, Twigley, and Steve. You won, well played.

 

[Edliuen]

I want to make one point, and will probably get bashed to death for it, but nontheless here it goes.

The powerblocks happened, because frankly, the playerbase let it happen. War/Chance let us get to the top, even though they all knew we were working together. They didn't work fast enough or hard enough to end it early. They gave us the round 8 days in.

Later on, when the resistance happened, S_G were pretty much on the verge of dying. But the resistance slacked off, and the powerblock affirmed their positions.

Later, when about a week ago, War actually posed a threat, when they valiantly almost caught up, they threw it away trying to mass defend one target. What was the point in that? Martin left you because he was trying to tell you that it was stupid trying to kill yourself mass defending him. But then you go ahead and do it and get killed. To be honest, War has played an amazing round, but I must say, didn't make the best decisions or didn't make it fast enough. You guys weren't committed enough to try to break the powerblock.

The powerblock does contain a lot of noobs, with a handful of skilled and active players that support and teach them. It contains a lot of first-rounders and a lot of people who does not have the experience in a top alliance. We are therefore susceptible, you just need the will and incentive to break it. The only way you'll prevent a powerblock is by providing some incentive and motivation. I understand, it's scary. you massing one alliance, and then getting retalled by two others. There needs to be a way to stop that, but I don't see how. I guess you've done a fair job Azzer by expressing your feelings. It will prevent a powerblocking in the near future, but how long will people remember this speech for?

That is all. (By the way, this is written at a very late hour and I cba to edit and read over. yes it's all over the place and I apologize. but i speak the truth.)

 

[ryanlok15]

as an idea especially for the bigger players, why not have a system where the gov sends out attacks at one of the top alliances or a single person(s) so it can slow down growth and development...no doubt if WH and Chance ganged up and had a bit of help i think that they could do a bit of damage...if azzer sets up a system that determines a persons strength and send at him/her accordingly with a certain amount of troops or powerful units then it will keep those at the top on thier toes...and this could allow smaller people to join in and be able to damage those who they couldnt even touch at all...just an idea

 

[Nagash]

IceOfFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagash View Post
I think what the game needs is a clear divide in groups of players. For example a number of rounds ago you had a clear divide in player groups.
R25 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew / Podunk and co.
R26 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew (rama leading).
R27 - Twigleys crew and Iofs merged into a 2 wing all SA piss about.
R28 - Podunks crew / Bit of random / Lukeys crew
R29 - Twigleys crew / Iofs crew / Ogluks crew (Which had a fair few of iofs old crew fighting v Twigleys crew)
R30 - "Twigleys group" (Even though its not just mine its always said to be / Iofs group / Ogluks group.

(24 - Ramas crew which had lots of "Iofs crew")
(23 - Iofs crew / Lukeys crew)
(22 - Ramas crew)


So ...
Clear divide?
Just took at the last 6 or more rounds there is a clear divide in players and there is alot of "hate" or to word it better rivalry that has been created by past rounds.
Beat me to it dam u!

I apologise if there has been two groups fighting it out but i havent particually played recently, i havent played in a long long time and have only recently returned, not really posted on forums previously either. However i dont think your rivalry and Ramas/IoF stands that true and bloodthirsty as the old rivalries, From what i gather Rama (i have no idea who Rama is btw) is with JJ? in that case your "snapped" to him. Hardly a rivalry if thats the case no?

 

[Antinoobkiller]

Mostly of the ppl moaning against the powerblock are players that have never felt how it is to not be able to win. You are the players that mostly probably had an easy ride but not this time cause some ppl wanted to make a diffrence this round.

Get over it, You got ownd really hard by these new guys . I sure can see all your frustration and hate towards TBA. And I can ensure they were tired of seeing you in the top rank posistions when they got bashed by you! Now it was your turn!

I think this round was a turning point in Bush history.

 

[fred]

I find it hard to believe that you've played 6 years if these are your ideas to 'balance' the game.

At least I have some ....

 

[pinpower]

This is actually a pretty stupid thread.... You won't destroy the power block with your admin powers because it's "not fair to them". However, you're considering putting a rule against powerblocking on the EULA.... How is this fair to players who got bashed to hell by the power block? What if they want to make a power block of their own next round just to give the power block this round a bit of revenge?

You'll be using your admin powers to stop other people from making power blocks but you won't end the one now?

Difference is its in no way fair to change rules halfway through a round (or 3/4 of the way through even). Im not just saying that cos im in SG, any major rule changes cannot be done mid round as it can completely mess up the way someone is playing, which really isnt fair. Even Garrett has said this.

I do however understand your point that if others were planning on making a powerblock they cant (if a rule is added), but i think the point is that basically all the "top" players are saying something should be done to stop them, and lower ranked players are feeling the effects as well. Also, if a rule is added it will be done between rounds, therefore allowing people to alter their plans if they had planned on creating permanent winged allies.

 

[fred]

Wow, this thread is a whole lot of crapola, on a stick even.

So 60 players, some of them lameasses to begin with, don't break rules but decide to work together. They could have been taken down early but through politics and whatnot weren't. Now they are really untouchable.. and they are...

But poor Azzer just bought a house people. He needs those credits.

Please, either make a rule or don't. But this round is a wash, it is what it is and it's over. move on thanks.

most rounds are over in 2-3 weeks ....
waste of time and money ....

 

[f0xx]

I find it hard to believe that you've played 6 years if these are your ideas to 'balance' the game.

At least I have some ....

Hahahahahah, that guy is killing me.

"At least I have some..."

And Polo doesn't have, right? RIGHT? Perhaps you should remove that blindfold

 

[fred]

Any chance people can respond to this thread a little more objectively?

As Azzer has already pointed out, this issue doesn't relate to "TBA" exclusively. Its about past rounds and future rounds too.

90% of the responses now are about TBA. Nothing can be done about this round. Try addressing/discussing the problem of powerblocks for future rounds...

LOL well thats because this issue is more or less 90% TBA's fault. I mean why in the name of god do you need to still try and justify your ***** decision?

the other powerblocks were different, it was a different time frame and context, infact the idea of alliances working together at that stage was almost encouraged, this was illustrated by the introduction of ANAP's. However, with their removal it also highlight the fact that they were being discouraged. Yet you guys wanted an "army" because you're cool and shiz.

Please consider context DA, Then there were between 2000-3000 players meaning that 60 players wasn't that big of a deal. Whereas now you have atleast 3/5 of the active playersbase.

you say nothing can be done. there are 20 days left. Although Twigley has already stated there will be no war even though he promised me there would be when i left overlude and said before leaving i should have spoke to him to avoid miscomceptions within my judgement.

so if 2/3 weeks into the round the initial idea was to disband and fight each other. Why can this not be changed within the remaining 3 weeks?

Critically you all highlighted that in heindsight the powerblock was a bad idea, not now when azzer gave you facts but beforehand. You also all claimed you would never be part of one again. So why was it not ended then? The thing is if this game were real war i would support your decision to maintain alliances, but this isn't real war, your alliance are not democratic establishments.

They are nothing more than piss stains on bushtarion.

Congratz.

How many real players are there nowdays?
500?
DA and the like are killing the game - again.
The main reason why I CBF any more ...