USA Midterms 2010

[marvin]

Some eejit on another (mainly British) forum made a topic called "Democrats lose 60 seats" and said:

They have now lost their majority in the house of reps \o/ although they hold on to their majority in the senate

This implied (or we thought it implied) he was happy about this which led someone to reply:

Why is that a good thing? The Republicans have gone bat **** insane these days.

I then went on to say:

Man I feel sorry for Obama now. He'll be lucky to get anything passed their government. The man tries to give the whole/most of the country free healthcare and the Republicans won't let him for fear of some African-American New Orleans' voodoo witchcraft? (May not be true).

Where is the sense in this? Or am I missing something?

inb4morepoliticallyintunefagoractualamericantoexplain.

So far I have not got much reply/have been ignored (they cut me deep ) but as I mentioned before it is a mainly British used forum so figured I'd have a better chance asking here with our diverse international community!

In short, any Americans (not Davis) care to enlighten me to where the logic is?

As far as I'm aware, and I could be very wrong, the reason the American electorate are pissed at the Democrat party is because they couldn't pass stuff so instead they voted Republican which actually will make it even harder to pass stuff if the news reports I've read are correct.

 

[Alcibiades]

Correct. Americans are imbeciles.

 

[TehPantz]

I would be happy to give you my take on things. I am a Democrat and have supported Obama from day one.

From my biased view, it looks like most of my fellow Americans are too impatient. They are not happy with the way our economy has done in the past 2 years and blame our democratic government. Obama (IMO) is doing the right thing by trying to turn the country around (health care, Iraq, etc) but his plans obviously take a long time to come to fruition. republicans seem to be shortsighted and fail to see any results. This causes people to panic and try something new (back to republican power). They fail to remember how hasty action and instant congressional law can lead to utter bullshit (Patriot Act).

I like to use the metaphor of a run-away freight train. The years under Bush have allowed out country's economy to spiral out of control and down the tubes by implementing long term plans to cause continuous economic damage (deregulation and the such). This reminds me of a 200 cart, fully loaded freight train that is out of control. After you throw on the breaks, it can take miles for it to come to a stop.

Obama is doing his best, but in today's world of instant results, shortsighted people see his actions as moot.



DISCLAIMER: These are all my own opinions given as a statement! Everyone is entitled to their own point of view and obviously people think different from me. If you want to argue with me about them, then I will ignore you since internet arguments always turn out to be deconstructive.

 

[LAFiN]

In my also biased opinion, the facts are these:

The people who run the privatized health care have increased the costs of their policies so they can continue to make GLOBS of money before the official "free health care" kicks in.

Generally speaking, the Republicans (or even worse, the Tee Party movement) are fear-mongering bigots. God forbid you look after those in need when you'd be losing your 2% tax-cut. For some reason, in America, those making over $210,000 annually can't find it in their hearts to see that they are fairly wealthy. Instead of doing the Christian (right-wing) thing and look after those in need, they are too focused at looking for ways to pad their own, already grossly fat wallets.

Apparently people are unhappy with the government stepping in and trying to do what is right, because, as a result of their actions, private companies are trying to further rip off the American people, and are doing so at the expense of the government. It's quite a sad story, but companies are fearful that they might have to actually spend the money from their premiums on actual health care. As it stands now, companies are able to prevent anyone with a "pre-existing condition," which is to say, basically any sort of disease that can't be discovered unless you go to a doctor and have it diagnosed, from getting health care. They are also able to keep up to 20% of the premiums people pay for health care for non-medical purposes.

 

[LuckySports]

Hmm, I would quote, but Im feeling lazy tonite..

The reason the democrats are losing seats is a combination of several things.

Impatience (as mentioned) - People aren't seeing the result they want RIGHT NOW, and freak out

Media - The media is all about numbers (and I don't mean facts.. I mean people watching) and People like to watch negative newscasts.. So the news spins everything in a negative light so they get more people watching for higher ratings.. thus - They can get more money from advertisers paying for timeslots.

Republicans - THEY are abusing the media and this fear to their advantage, attempting to take the house and make Obama look worse than he really is.

Democrats - THEY are abandoning Obama due to the rising fear and the lower approval ratings, trying to salvage their seats instead of doing what they wanted to do when they got into politics in the first place.

People in general - It is easy to sway the masses.. Individuals may question what is presented before them, but the masses will believe anything you say if you can do it with confidences and shakey facts..


And with that said - I would like to point out that I am neither Liberal or Conservative..

During the Election, I supported McCain, but voted for Obama..

Mostly because.. Sarah Palin = the Devil Incarnate..

and I can say that, because I live in Alaska.. and have seen the horns..

true story

 

[marvin]

Excellent, thanks guys. Very helpful

 

[marvin]

Boy do I have a treat for you guys.

The same said 'A silly person' replied:

Why is that a good thing? The Republicans have gone bat **** insane these days.

And the Democrats have gone bat **** incompetent

Which I replied with:

Which is because the Republicans have gone bat **** insane and won't let anything pass.. Which will now happen even more so.

A random reply but kinda needs to be put in to get the content of later posts:

No, the Democrats are very incompetent. I wouldn't say it's a new development though, they've always seemed to be like this to a greater or lesser extent. The lobbies just usually side with the Republicans I guess. Big business is pretty in favour of the status quo so it makes sense really.

My retort with some information I gained in this thread :

I never said the Democrats weren't incompetent. I merely said why they have gone/are incompetent. The most trival of things don't get passed because of the Republicans according to the big O' man himself. As far as I'm aware, the Republicans are all set to repeal the parts of the healthcare bill that did get passed so they (and other rich Republican supporters) don't lose their 2% tax-cut, meaning ~30 million Americans are about to get their free healthcare that they can't normally afford yanked faster than they got it. You could say they got what's coming to them by voting Republican as a knee-jerk reaction because they're too impatient and expect results overnight/within 2 years. Then again, what would I know.. I'm not American >.>

I'd say you're right about the big business thing though, capitalist scum eh?

Silly person:

I could be wrong, but I thought to be eligible for the "free" health care, you had to pay some sort of insurance contribution.

My retort:

You mean like we (the British) do as part of our taxes (that go towards the NHS)? And therefore healthcare is free at the point of use.

Silly person then went on wikipedia to knowledge himself up:

Except the premium is between 2 and 10% of your income which is rather a lot. If you opt not to pay, there is a fine of 2.5% of income (or $695 for individuals, $2,250 per family).
Plus it is nowhere near "universal". It is estimated that by 2019 (when all the proposals will be in effect) there will still be ~23 million people without it (for whatever reason).

My reply including another sensible person's reply to the same post that I agreed with.

I don't really know much about the bill tbh, just what I hear from snippits. Is the premium you mentioned like what Iain Keers said how the national insurance works in the UK with pay means-tested taxation? I.e. 2% for the lowest income earners, 10% for the highest income earners. I read about the fine, perhaps a bit extreme especially for those who can't even afford the 2% of their income. It sounds like it could certainly use work in regards to not being totally universal by the time it's supposed to be in full effect and those who can't afford the 2% contribution of their income.

What it needs to be considered in the context of, is that prior to this there was no right for people to have medical care, that is, some people could be denied health insurance and as such never be able to get free at the point of use health care - don't you be poor, or we'll make sure you die if you are ill. So it is an improvement on what was there before, it also needs to be considered in the context of how much medical insurance actually costs as well.

This.

The fact you can be denied health insurance because you have a certain ailment and it's too expensive for the insurance company to pay for/there's not enough money going back to the insurance company/you don't have enough money is pretty ****ing disgusting. And the Republicans called the NHS evil?

His loltastic reply:

The insurance companies are there to make a profit. The fact of the matter is that if they can't make a profit, then why exactly would they want to insure you. It should be their choice who they choose to insure and who they do not wish to insure.

My final retort so far:

That''s like saying that it's ok that they're allowed to choose who does and doesn't die. Pretty sure the Republicans also said something along those lines about the NHS..

Good ole fear-mongering, eh?

Edit: Do you have good insurance by any chance?

Edit edit: Are you a Republican supporter?

There is only one explanation. The aforementioned 'A silly person' must infact be... a Republican.

Edit: Reply from the Republican:

Well they are under no obligation to sell people a product at a loss. It's not their job to do so, and they are a business not a charity. Furthermore, I don't agree with the characterisation and demonisation of the NHS, but you can't expect businesses to sell a product at a loss.

Well I live in Australia where we have universal healthcare but I do have additional health insurance yes although my additional health insurance is p ****

Well I'm not sure, but I think if you made me choose between the two I'd go with the GOP I guess

I kinda just agreed with him there and said he had a good point. Although I did add "Although it just reinforces the need for America to get that free at point of use and maybe, someday, universal healthcare system free from the grasp of the insurance companies that just care about ripping off the average American"

 

[Tiznak]

All of the jackasses in the District of Criminals are in it for themselves. They can care less about the people they are serving and are only concerned with stuffing their pockets with dirty money and getting re-elected. Any American would be naive in believing that politicians are in for the greater good of the country; if they were, they would been up in arms over the Supreme Courts decision back in February to allow Corporations to make un-capped donations to political campaigns (anyone notice the rise in propaganda ads this year).

I can't say that I'm surprised by how the votes turned out, but its nothing new. Every election the opposing party grabs the seats and we start blaming them for our problems.

 

[LuckySports]

All of the jackasses in the District of Criminals are in it for themselves. They can care less about the people they are serving and are only concerned with stuffing their pockets with dirty money and getting re-elected. Any American would be naive in believing that politicians are in for the greater good of the country; if they were, they would been up in arms over the Supreme Courts decision back in February to allow Corporations to make un-capped donations to political campaigns (anyone notice the rise in propaganda ads this year).

I can't say that I'm surprised by how the votes turned out, but its nothing new. Every election the opposing party grabs the seats and we start blaming them for our problems.

I "MOSTLY" Agree with you..

Except I'm sure there are a few politicians around who are still gold of heart and actually want to help people.. I can't really give any examples, but Im sure they are out there.. I'd be forced to get all the State Representatives into an emergency session of congress and blow the place to smithereens.. Start from scratch eh?

Lets go with there are still a few who are in it for those that elected them.. They are just the ones that don't get media coverage.. No one cares about the good ones anymore..


And yea.. there is definitely more mud-slinging than usual going on.

 

[[yoyo]]

All of the jackasses in the District of Criminals are in it for themselves. They can care less about the people they are serving and are only concerned with stuffing their pockets with dirty money and getting re-elected. Any American would be naive in believing that politicians are in for the greater good of the country; if they were, they would been up in arms over the Supreme Courts decision back in February to allow Corporations to make un-capped donations to political campaigns (anyone notice the rise in propaganda ads this year).

I can't say that I'm surprised by how the votes turned out, but its nothing new. Every election the opposing party grabs the seats and we start blaming them for our problems.

I "MOSTLY" Agree with you..

Except I'm sure there are a few politicians around who are still gold of heart and actually want to help people.. I can't really give any examples, but Im sure they are out there.. I'd be forced to get all the State Representatives into an emergency session of congress and blow the place to smithereens.. Start from scratch eh?

Lets go with there are still a few who are in it for those that elected them.. They are just the ones that don't get media coverage.. No one cares about the good ones anymore..


And yea.. there is definitely more mud-slinging than usual going on.

hmm, i just read that the top notch polling service rassmusen[sp?] has 68% of those polled wanting the whole house and senate fired and start over

who said "if your vote counted, they would make it illegal"?
of course, our great sudo writer mark twain said "we have the best congress money can buy"

personaly, i always vote against the incumbents[sp?]..democrats and republicans are the same party. hopefully people will understand that in the next election.

*throws 2 pennies on the ground*

Edit: oh btw Martin, both obama and the republicans wont be able to pass anything. house controled by [R] and the senate controled by [D] checkma....errr stalemate. sad times indeed

 

[marvin]

*marvin


:3