• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Another Activity/Fun/NewPlayers suggestion

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
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Kent UK
Seeing as these are all the rage, I thought I'd get with the times. Apologies for post length, but I think reasons are just as important as specific suggestions. If you want to get straight to the point skip down to the large gap below.

What we seem to want is something that will stop constant activity being required to be able to play this game at anything above alliance rank 20 level.

However, we don't want to over power pros while doing this, while at the same time it should still be the case that by putting in more time and effort you will do better than someone who doesn't.

Ideas being thrown around have included tick length change, which has been thoroughly covered, and improvements to sleep mode, which seems a little forced and clumsy to me, and also reduces the already small pool of targets we have.

But why do we want these changes? It's so that people can continue to have fun, and troops to have fun with, without being active. And primarily why do we want this? To stop player numbers decreasing, and to attract new players.

Fun in this game, community aspects aside, comes almost exclusively from battle reports and trying to bring them about. Going back and forth with offensive and defensive mobs, forcing recalls and never fighting, while it does have it's merits, isn't enough by itself, and we only do this in the hope that we'll get a nice BR out of all this work, and if this never happens we end up getting bored (eg. resistances).

The way the game is currently set up there aren't enough incentives on either attacking or defending sides to 'stay for the fun of it'. We are all too afraid of losing large chunks of our troops for very little gain. Even equal battles are to be avoided, except in certain war situations, because in the grand scheme knocking out one of the hundreds of players in the game, doesn't really benefit you in and of itself. We weigh up the damage we will take against possible land/bounty gains, and unless we're going to destroy an enemy it often isn't worthwhile.




So to sum up my thoughts, what I feel the game needs is more battles, which are ultimately what we derive fun from, and to bring this about we need less severe consequences for these battles in order to encourage them. This will result in activity being less vital, while time and effort will still be rewarded. It so happens that we already have mechanisms in place to reduce consequences and encourage battles. Bounty and insurance.

So my actual suggestion would be to increase bounty and insurance. Now this would rely quite heavily on a successful fairness calculator, which I don't know where Azzer is with, but which is certainly achievable. I would suggest upping base bounty for attackers to 75%, with a base insurance of 25 %, and doing the opposite for defenders, so 75% insurance with 25% bounty gain possible while defending. It would also be an idea to increase the insurance on a defender by 5% for every 12 hours they are offline, to a max of 95% if you've been offline for 48 hours.

What effect would this have on the game? People would be willing to actually stay for battles more often. In an even damage battle with people of equal size/FC, both sides stand to actually lose nothing overall. This will stop the game being so much about preserving what you have, and make it more about what you can gain. It will also swing the game away from being land dominated; bounty hunting could be just as effective an income. Alliance wars with 0% insurance would also become much more serious, while possible bounty gains would greatly increase the drive to take the war to the enemy, rather than sitting about waiting for them to make a move.

It would change the activity problem from being "if i'm not active I'll be repeatedly wiped" to being "if i'm not active I'll fall behind in the bounty race", so there are still rewards for activity, but the consequences for inactivity aren't as severe.

It would also benefit solo play. AR could be reduced so that it is easier to hit a solo player, reducing AR abuse situations, while at the same time solos would be more able to stay in the game with their increased insurance.

Also, looking ahead, if this were to work then a change to 5 minute ticks might not be so unthinkable. Most people would agree that 5 minute ticks made the game alot more fun as far as attacking went; you could search for a target and see it from eta 5 through to attacking for 1 in under 45 minutes. In this respect activity is also reduced. The problem people had with 5 minute ticks was the strain it put on defending. Insurance in the 75-95% region would drastically reduce this strain.

Possible problems of it being impossible to really hurt an alliance are dealt with by the alliance war function. A decent fairness calculator should stop abuse of the high base bounty by attacking much smaller players or single unit LET rushes.

All in all I see a long list of positives with a pretty short list of negatives. I realise that such a drastic change is highly unlikely to be implemented, but by keeping up the bombardment of drastic suggestions, we might at least get something through the "I fear change" barrier! If you've read all of this, thanks for your patience. I'm sure I've missed some negatives, so fire away :)
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
High base bounty is just too abusable. I don't think the game needs bounty to be a main income. It's supposed to be about land.

I also don't like gaining advantages for being offline for an extended period of time, it just seems silly :p
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
"So to sum up my thoughts, what I feel the game needs is more battles, which are ultimately what we derive fun from, and to bring this about we need less severe consequences for these battles in order to encourage them. This will result in activity being less vital, while time and effort will still be rewarded."



I've made that point myself several times :p We don't want to improve sleepmode to make battles even less frequent we want to make targets less sad while the attackers can enjoy their time spent online. And it can still be fun for defenders too, just attacking should always be encouraged more to avoid stale periods.

I see the solution for less activity demands pretty close to yours, tho i'd change the base bounty to what i suggested before "population happiness" that can drastically improve the income/acre you make. That way you need more acres and players would be encouraged to play the game instead beeing rewarded for beeing SQ/breast feed by their alliance all the time.
Your peasants would demand alliance wars, they'd be happier with stealing acres, killing worthy oponents and defending.
It would also be quite impossible for top alliance to keep up with the level of happiness in the alliances right below them and that could keep the round open for longer without the need of a powerblock right below rank 1.

And as a reduced penalty for getting killed we could just get a very high insurance the same way that works now or to make it a bit more rewarding for attackers increase the time for the insurance to come and possibly instead giving all of it at once we could get fractions every tick for the next few hours.



Sorry for hijacking your thread just my idea it's not far away from yours :p
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
Sounds like an idealist solution DS, I've thought of something along those lines as well. Working out exactly how to implement could take some work though.
 

JJB

Harvester
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
101
When the new fairness calculator is up and running, We should bring back Law/fame.

This would encourage more attacking and then insurance could be increased a little.

And apart from the fact of more attacking, bounty hunting was soo amazing
 

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penguin

Official Helper
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Nov 17, 2008
Messages
178
Location
Ohio, USA
I personally don't like the five minute ticks. It was absolutely great my first round, getting to know how things work a bit faster.. but.. for alliance attacks, it's not so idealistic. Yes, it does take some time to plan them in the first place, but for a 'eh, I just want to attack an alliance' moment, ten minute ticks are a lot better for that to ensure all the people who want to attack can attack. Both 10 minute ticks and 5 minute ticks sure has its advantages and disadvantages, but I think 10 minute ticks are more effective :)
Other than the tick.. I don't think we should reward people for inactivity really. I wasn't active my first round.. and I seen why activeness is critical to a player.. yet, it doesn't take 10 hours a day to keep up with everyone else. I agree it's stressful when you log on to be completely zeroed with minimul seeds and money to re-grow, but it's part of the game..

More attacks/actual defense would be better for the game also. I have seen less and less battle reports and I'm kind of [a tiny bit] losing interest in the game because of it. Also, I haven't seen a war between an alliance I am in and another one since snicks and TNG back in R29.

Good ideas in here :)
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
I love 5 minute ticks btw.

But I don't see how that would help the need to be active :p
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
Apparently people have gotten confused in the orgy of posting about tick length that's been going on in other threads. That's an after thought in this thread, let's not get hung up on it.

The main idea of the thread is summarised here:
CFalcon said:
stop the game being so much about preserving what you have, and make it more about what you can gain

which does relate to activity, but also relates to fun/new players/game attitude, so again, don't get hung up on activity.

Would be nice to have a few more comments, because the few comments so far would indicate that this is an area people would far rather see developed than tick length, sleep mode etc., even if my specific suggestion doesn't do it for you.
 

Cyrus

Official Helper
Community Operator
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,346
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Nottinghamshire
* Remove sleep mode

* Add more routes / different unit types

* Gear towards an alliance game (even when solo if someone wants you dead, your dead. forget the what if your inactive bollocks)

* There's nothing your gonna do about activity prevailling im afraid unless the tick length being an hour

*Increasing bounty / insurance is definately NOT the way forward, wars brag on for too long, msot would simply just like to die, and those underneath find it very long winded taking down rank 1

*people get away with being on afew hours, unless your in a FTW alli in which case you wouldnt be on just afew hours, its not a hinderance as far as im aware? someone in the rank 10th alli could get away with 3 hours a day? its just the food chain.


(tried to read what i could, could be random crap in this post :p )
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
* Remove sleep mode

If we could reach a situation where this could be done, that'd be great, but at the moment it's still needed.

* Gear towards an alliance game (even when solo if someone wants you dead, your dead. forget the what if your inactive bollocks)

It was Blackwolf who said trying to combine alliance and solo game can't work, and I tend to agree, needs to go one way or the other.

* There's nothing your gonna do about activity prevailling im afraid unless the tick length being an hour

Nobody's trying to :)

*Increasing bounty / insurance is definately NOT the way forward, wars brag on for too long, msot would simply just like to die, and those underneath find it very long winded taking down rank 1

Declare war. No insurance. Problem solved.

Also, with higher bounty, killing a hostile alliance wouldn't be the only issue. Even with insurance, if you consistently win BRs, you're going to pull away on bounty.
 

Lewis

Beginner
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
1
* Gear towards an alliance game (even when solo if someone wants you dead, your dead. forget the what if your inactive bollocks)

It was Blackwolf who said trying to combine alliance and solo game can't work, and I tend to agree, needs to go one way or the other.

Totally agree, the game has always tried to be playable for both solo's and alliance players, and never really got it right for either type. I'd say the same about the routes, too many do everything reasonable well, and not enough do one thing very very well.

As far as your idea, I think it's great. If I understand it correctly, does that mean if defending, you can only lose 25% of your staff and acres? That would make being contactable still worthwhile, but not totally necessary to play. Maybe even make war declarations last a week, so even if you are at war you only have to go crazy active for a week?
 

ollie|

Weeder
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
28
If you wanted to try and get people to have bigger battles, wouldn't increasing bounty help, and maybe decreasing land grabs a small amount, it would mean that land is harder to get quickly, and a good way to get funds would be to have, good, honorable attacks since thats the way to get more of a bounty from kills
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
Cfalcon is pretty spot on with the way i want it aswell :p

You don't have to be worried as much if you can't kill an alliance QUICK but if you win br's you get plenty rewards while the other alliance is not constantly under activity pressure .. be online or be dead. Big insurance and big bounty sounds good, tho i'd like it more if it was big insurance plus increased production on current acres if you are involved in many honorable and big BR's. That way you need to be good at everything (killing, getting acres, keeping acres) and would reflect better ppl's skill. And on top of that using sleepmode should set your productivity back to normal so you can use it if you really want to but since insurance would be high you shouldn't depend on it anymore.
 

Urza

Beginner
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
1
Hey now that being under ten land wont protect the noobs what do you guys think about if you are under so much score you cant be attacked?
 
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