- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
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The Holy Grail? What's All This Then?
There is an aspect of Bushtarion that I - and most players - have never been happy with, despite numerous attempts at implementing all sorts of ideas.
This system has no real name as of yet (and has gone by many different names), but for this post I will call it the "Fairness Calculator", or FC for short.
The FC is used for everything in combat relating to your gains from bounty hunting, your effectiveness, and the dynamic land cap. In the past it has been used for honour/fame, insurance gains once, injury gains for a while, and other similar related things.
The FC atm is grotesquely complex, has "issues" under certain combat conditions, and is designed in such a way that it's frankly impossible to publicise the exact mechanics of how it works to the playerbase.
What I consider the "holy grail" of improvements at the moment, is a completely re-done from the ground up FC. One that can be made public in how it works. One that is free of abuse. One that can be used for any current and future additions to the game that relate to needing to reward (or punish if desired) "good fights", "bad fights", and "neutral fights".
What I'm Asking For:
I'm asking for solid, well thought out suggestions from the players on a new FC. While I welcome any ideas or suggested methods, big or small from anyone, what I'm really hoping for is to tap in to the mind of a few geniuses out there for a fully fledged mathematical solution to the problem, that I can turn in to actual working code. But I'll welcome any genuine suggestions players have on the subject, as even if you only make a small suggestion or comment on the subject, it might help inspire a fuller solution from somebody else.
Requirements For A New FC:
* It will generate a number between 0-200 for every player who has troops involved in a battle report for that tick. The target will have it's own value, every individual attacker (from any alliance) will have their own value. Every single defender will have their own personal values too.
* 100 will be the "Neutral" point. It means "Completely fair/equal/normal/every day attack".
* 200 will be "Awesome attack, small guy pwning a huge guy in a fair combat, this guy got skills/got balls/is a nutcase.
* 0 will be "Raping the same guy over and over"/"Bashing a newb"/"Waving somebody with all of your mates" etc.
* The calculation can generate numbers below 0 and above 200 (if that's how you envision/need the maths to work), but my code will cap them at 200 (if > 200, set to 200, if < 0, set to 0, etc.).
* For every attacker, their FC hard-set to 100 if the attacker's alliance or the victim's alliance are at war with eachother.
* For the victim or every defender, their FC will be treated as 100 against any individual attacking them who's alliance is at war with them, but will be treated as normal for any attacker who isn't at war with them (eg any solo addons etc.).
So to sum up... the battle engine calculates a combat. It then goes through everyone present in combat, and runs them through this new FC Calculator.
Then when the battle engine calculates each individual's land steal, their bounty gains, or their effectiveness gains.... the FC will be treated as a percentage of those figures (eg an FC of 50 means 50% max bounty gain). Sometimes results above, or below 100, will be treated as 100 - eg it's never possible to gain above 100 land cap, or above 100 bounty hunt. But you could get 200% effectiveness. The battle engine will handle what is done with the FC, the FC calculator simply needs to create that value.
What An FC Has To Consider:
* What if an attacker/a defender sends a single unit in to the combat - eg just 1 hippy?
* Will the original launch-ETA's of a mob affect the value (eg does a mob ETA of 2 for an attacker give them a lower FC, because it's a rush mob etc.)
* If the victim runs all their staff away, is their FC affected?
* If the victim is offline, is their FC affected?
* If three people with 50,000 score each attack somebody with 150,000 score... does everyone have 100 FC? Or do the attackers get a little more because they themselves are each smaller?
* Does the FC use score, or troop score, or land score, in it's calculations?
* Does FC consider how many troops were actually sent, or simply the fact any troops were sent at all?
* Will it use the percentage of total troops sent (eg somebody sent 50% worth of all of their troops... so use 50% of their total score in the calc), or the actual value of the troops sent (a guy with 50,000 score sends 2,000 worth of troops - a single gardener).
* Solos attacking alliances, alliances attacking solos?
* Do the types of troops have any consideration (pure LET mobs, pure INN mobs... what about prot players in that case etc.)
* Think of possible abuses people could use - flak boosts, triggerers, etc.
An Example FC:
To calculate an attackers FC, need to calculate these two things for each individual attacker present:
* X= (Your total score * your repeat attack multiplier) + (your alliance average score * your repeat attack multiplier) + (% of total troops each individual attacker sent as a percent of their total score)
* Y= (Defender total score) + (defender alliance average score)
* FC = Y/X * 100.
Example maths: 3 people from a 10 man alliance of 400,000 score (average score 40,000), each individual having 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000 score each... along with a solo of 10,000 score.... attack somebody in a 10 man alliance of 1,000,000 score (average score 100,000) who has 30,000 score themselves. The solo was a friend of the victim and has sent 1 hippy (1% of their total troop value). The largest two alliance attackers have both sent 90% of their staff (90% the value of all their staff, not 90% the quantity). The smaller alliance attacker has sent 50% of their staff. The defender receives defense from 3 allied members, but other defender's scores aren't considered in this FC calculation! The smaller allied attacker has attacked this victim quite a few times already in recent days, and they've got a "repeat mob" multiplier of 1.76 currently. None of the other attackers have attacked this particular target before.
Attacker 1 (25,000 score):
X = (25,000 * 1.76) + (40,000 * 1.76) + (0.9*50000, 0.9*75000, 0.01*10000) = 227,000
Y = 130,000
FC = 57.3%
Attacker 2 (50,000 score):
X = (50,000) + (40,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*75000, 0.01*10000) = 170,100
Y = 130,000
FC = 76.4%
Attacker 3 (75,000 score):
X = (75,000) + (40,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*50000, 0.01*10000) = 172,600
Y = 130,000
FC = 75.3%
Solo Attacker (10,000 score):
X = (10,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*50000, 0.9*75000) = 135,500
Y = 130,000
FC = 95.9%
In this example new FC system, a solo sending a single hippy has next to no impact at all on the other attackers (simply adds 100 to their total attacker scores), but the solo themselves gets a pretty poor FC (less than 100) despite technically attacking somebody three times bigger than themselves in an alliance of 100,000 average score members, because they got the added weight of all the alliance attackers.
The smaller alliance attacker, because they've attacked this victim before, has a pretty poor FC compared to anyone else.
CBA giving an example to calculate the defenders FC, the above should be enough to give you an idea of a possible system.
The example FC above is pretty simplistic - It doesn't take in to consideration "pure let mobs", "low eta mobs/rush mobs", "high eta mobs", "pure flak mobs" or anything advanced like that - but perhaps simplicity would be an improvement, rather than trying to factor these things in like the current live FC attempts to.
Summary:
If you've managed to follow this whole post, you've already proved you're pretty damn intelligent
I basically want ideas for, or an actual detailed specification/system for calculating a new "FC" value for everyone present in a particular battle... one that is simpler than the current unpublished version, that can actually BE published, and can be used for bounty hunting, effectiveness, land caps, and as yet unthought of things too.
Any ideas you get, try and run them through your head for some example combat situations you've ever been in in Bush, or try and think how you might abuse it to make somebody else get a terrible FC on an otherwise ok attack, or how somebody might try to ruin your own FC somehow on an attack/a defense.
There is an aspect of Bushtarion that I - and most players - have never been happy with, despite numerous attempts at implementing all sorts of ideas.
This system has no real name as of yet (and has gone by many different names), but for this post I will call it the "Fairness Calculator", or FC for short.
The FC is used for everything in combat relating to your gains from bounty hunting, your effectiveness, and the dynamic land cap. In the past it has been used for honour/fame, insurance gains once, injury gains for a while, and other similar related things.
The FC atm is grotesquely complex, has "issues" under certain combat conditions, and is designed in such a way that it's frankly impossible to publicise the exact mechanics of how it works to the playerbase.
What I consider the "holy grail" of improvements at the moment, is a completely re-done from the ground up FC. One that can be made public in how it works. One that is free of abuse. One that can be used for any current and future additions to the game that relate to needing to reward (or punish if desired) "good fights", "bad fights", and "neutral fights".
What I'm Asking For:
I'm asking for solid, well thought out suggestions from the players on a new FC. While I welcome any ideas or suggested methods, big or small from anyone, what I'm really hoping for is to tap in to the mind of a few geniuses out there for a fully fledged mathematical solution to the problem, that I can turn in to actual working code. But I'll welcome any genuine suggestions players have on the subject, as even if you only make a small suggestion or comment on the subject, it might help inspire a fuller solution from somebody else.
Requirements For A New FC:
* It will generate a number between 0-200 for every player who has troops involved in a battle report for that tick. The target will have it's own value, every individual attacker (from any alliance) will have their own value. Every single defender will have their own personal values too.
* 100 will be the "Neutral" point. It means "Completely fair/equal/normal/every day attack".
* 200 will be "Awesome attack, small guy pwning a huge guy in a fair combat, this guy got skills/got balls/is a nutcase.
* 0 will be "Raping the same guy over and over"/"Bashing a newb"/"Waving somebody with all of your mates" etc.
* The calculation can generate numbers below 0 and above 200 (if that's how you envision/need the maths to work), but my code will cap them at 200 (if > 200, set to 200, if < 0, set to 0, etc.).
* For every attacker, their FC hard-set to 100 if the attacker's alliance or the victim's alliance are at war with eachother.
* For the victim or every defender, their FC will be treated as 100 against any individual attacking them who's alliance is at war with them, but will be treated as normal for any attacker who isn't at war with them (eg any solo addons etc.).
So to sum up... the battle engine calculates a combat. It then goes through everyone present in combat, and runs them through this new FC Calculator.
Then when the battle engine calculates each individual's land steal, their bounty gains, or their effectiveness gains.... the FC will be treated as a percentage of those figures (eg an FC of 50 means 50% max bounty gain). Sometimes results above, or below 100, will be treated as 100 - eg it's never possible to gain above 100 land cap, or above 100 bounty hunt. But you could get 200% effectiveness. The battle engine will handle what is done with the FC, the FC calculator simply needs to create that value.
What An FC Has To Consider:
* What if an attacker/a defender sends a single unit in to the combat - eg just 1 hippy?
* Will the original launch-ETA's of a mob affect the value (eg does a mob ETA of 2 for an attacker give them a lower FC, because it's a rush mob etc.)
* If the victim runs all their staff away, is their FC affected?
* If the victim is offline, is their FC affected?
* If three people with 50,000 score each attack somebody with 150,000 score... does everyone have 100 FC? Or do the attackers get a little more because they themselves are each smaller?
* Does the FC use score, or troop score, or land score, in it's calculations?
* Does FC consider how many troops were actually sent, or simply the fact any troops were sent at all?
* Will it use the percentage of total troops sent (eg somebody sent 50% worth of all of their troops... so use 50% of their total score in the calc), or the actual value of the troops sent (a guy with 50,000 score sends 2,000 worth of troops - a single gardener).
* Solos attacking alliances, alliances attacking solos?
* Do the types of troops have any consideration (pure LET mobs, pure INN mobs... what about prot players in that case etc.)
* Think of possible abuses people could use - flak boosts, triggerers, etc.
An Example FC:
To calculate an attackers FC, need to calculate these two things for each individual attacker present:
* X= (Your total score * your repeat attack multiplier) + (your alliance average score * your repeat attack multiplier) + (% of total troops each individual attacker sent as a percent of their total score)
* Y= (Defender total score) + (defender alliance average score)
* FC = Y/X * 100.
Example maths: 3 people from a 10 man alliance of 400,000 score (average score 40,000), each individual having 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000 score each... along with a solo of 10,000 score.... attack somebody in a 10 man alliance of 1,000,000 score (average score 100,000) who has 30,000 score themselves. The solo was a friend of the victim and has sent 1 hippy (1% of their total troop value). The largest two alliance attackers have both sent 90% of their staff (90% the value of all their staff, not 90% the quantity). The smaller alliance attacker has sent 50% of their staff. The defender receives defense from 3 allied members, but other defender's scores aren't considered in this FC calculation! The smaller allied attacker has attacked this victim quite a few times already in recent days, and they've got a "repeat mob" multiplier of 1.76 currently. None of the other attackers have attacked this particular target before.
Attacker 1 (25,000 score):
X = (25,000 * 1.76) + (40,000 * 1.76) + (0.9*50000, 0.9*75000, 0.01*10000) = 227,000
Y = 130,000
FC = 57.3%
Attacker 2 (50,000 score):
X = (50,000) + (40,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*75000, 0.01*10000) = 170,100
Y = 130,000
FC = 76.4%
Attacker 3 (75,000 score):
X = (75,000) + (40,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*50000, 0.01*10000) = 172,600
Y = 130,000
FC = 75.3%
Solo Attacker (10,000 score):
X = (10,000) + (0.5*25000, 0.9*50000, 0.9*75000) = 135,500
Y = 130,000
FC = 95.9%
In this example new FC system, a solo sending a single hippy has next to no impact at all on the other attackers (simply adds 100 to their total attacker scores), but the solo themselves gets a pretty poor FC (less than 100) despite technically attacking somebody three times bigger than themselves in an alliance of 100,000 average score members, because they got the added weight of all the alliance attackers.
The smaller alliance attacker, because they've attacked this victim before, has a pretty poor FC compared to anyone else.
CBA giving an example to calculate the defenders FC, the above should be enough to give you an idea of a possible system.
The example FC above is pretty simplistic - It doesn't take in to consideration "pure let mobs", "low eta mobs/rush mobs", "high eta mobs", "pure flak mobs" or anything advanced like that - but perhaps simplicity would be an improvement, rather than trying to factor these things in like the current live FC attempts to.
Summary:
If you've managed to follow this whole post, you've already proved you're pretty damn intelligent
I basically want ideas for, or an actual detailed specification/system for calculating a new "FC" value for everyone present in a particular battle... one that is simpler than the current unpublished version, that can actually BE published, and can be used for bounty hunting, effectiveness, land caps, and as yet unthought of things too.Any ideas you get, try and run them through your head for some example combat situations you've ever been in in Bush, or try and think how you might abuse it to make somebody else get a terrible FC on an otherwise ok attack, or how somebody might try to ruin your own FC somehow on an attack/a defense.
