Stupidity

dave

Harvester
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Northants, England
this threads a little bit harsh on azzer. i only read the first post. something goes wrong with the server and all of a sudden theres talk of rollin things back and blah blah.
it wasnt even a whole day, u cld still log in and send attacks and defend.
whats the problem here? get on with it surely.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
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Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
Well Dave. The issue seems to be that while some people could get on others couldn't. At least not reliably. And these people are griping about fairness because they were unlucky enough to be unable to play.

Edit: I do agree with your suck it up, get over it and move on attitude :D
 
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Davs

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
948
Location
England
I wasn't even here due to factors that weren't entirely under my control. Please give me my troops back.

Oh no, wait, that's a load of rubbish.

/me repeats DaX's words of wisdom.
 

Zaheen

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No sir, I believe you missed the point.
Sir? No, I believe you're just being you again. If you actually open your eyes and READ next time, maybe you'll see perfectly clear of the reasoning behind my post.

The risks were the same for both sides who were attacking or defending. The only advantage we had was the advantage that any attacker has, the initiative. We had members sending who were unable to send due to the server stuff, we had people lose units due to the server stutters, we had people almost die when they got retalled due to being unable to send out. There were inherent risks in attacking when you're not sure you can recall. We were lucky, others weren't so lucky. It's perfectly fair that since the game was working for me (on and off, mind you) I was allowed to keep playing.
Risks same on both sides? You see SOME OF US AROUND HERE don't frantically refresh the page for hours on end whilst the server is down, instead would rather go and watch some tv, a dvd, or go play some sports, another game perhaps.

Personally, I'd understand the server was having problems and being the cool awesome fair player I am, I wouldn't take advantage of this and kill someone, it's just not cool. Requires no skill. End of.

My sympathies go out to those who were unable to get on, but I don't see why it should stop me from playing. I highly doubt if the circumstances had been reversed we would have received mercy due to being unable to reliably get online.
Good one, you give as much sympathy as George Bush gives to Iraq, after the bombs he planned there.

Thanks Zaheen, for another invective filled post; next time, try to express your opinion without letting your unnatural hatred boil through. :)
Or else what? It's impossible to reply in a civil manner with you. However you'll notice I do reply in such a tone with normal and nice humane players.

The effort involved to get people online who were struggling, work out an attack plan, make sure everyone sent right etas/ticks etc. A lot of hard work went into trying to use our time as effectively as possible. We didn't just attack players who couldn't get online (how could we know who could/couldn't get on?) And what are you on about we "wouldn't be punished with a rollback?" We sure as hell would. A day's worth of attacking, planning, time etc all wasted because some people were having server issues? Pfft. Again, if the situation was reversed there's no doubt in my mind you guys would be arguing the opposite position ;)
Struggling to work out an attack plan?! You idiot, the situation would never be in reverse for any talented player, who doesn't take advantages of this type of play.

And again, for the rollback, what about those players who weren't rank 1/2/3? Are you going to punish them because you think it was unfair that events totally out of control of the game, playerbase, creator led to some people being unable to get on? Bullshit. That would be the far greater of the two evils we're discussing here imo.
Rollback is a rollback, it's suppose to be there for the MAJORITY of players affected, clearly to balance out the unfairness. But it really doesn't matter now, so there is no point you arguing something I posted at the time. Trust you to quote everything I say.

Razorwolf you're wasting your time debating with these idiotic...fools.
Seriously, just leave it you won't win or do yourself any favours - you already made your point and you're right. You don't need verification from these guys.
 
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Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
Zaheen, personal beef or not, you have to accept that nothing can be done, and that there will always be people who will try harder to better than others. If they want to do that, it's their choice. It's the wonder of having your own life.
Just because 70-80% of the playerbase simply accepted the site was down fully, doesn't mean the time the other minute percentage can't keep trying to get the edge on everyone.
Azzer won't roll back the server, and it simply wasn't his fault it happened. I don't know why you have to simply reply Alci/etc every time, rather than really addressing the point.
Davis is wrong to start the topic with what is pretty much a flame on Azzer - I didn't see many look at that and tell him he was wrong.
If you're going to genuinely build up a negative vibe over this, then your positive role in this game is over, in my opinion.
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
Nah, Davis is 100% right to make a topic like this. Azzer has never, and apparently will never handle server problems correctly. It's been a major problem in the past (although sometimes in the past i agree he in general had many less options), but this time was just waaaay stupid. In the middle of a fight for rank 1 servers are up and down and up and down with it being stupidly easy just to rush someone and get a free tick, not knowing if/when you prank someone if he'll be able to do anything.

Poor job by Azzer once again handling these kinds of problems. They aren't as rare as people seem to think considering how many times i've seen this argument and I haven't been playing for THAT long.

Edit: And I'm guessing some people are using the argument 'lesser of two evils' blahblahblah like they always do. Yes, there are 2 sides, someone spent the time killing someone and someone died. Yes, it's unfair to the person who died, I'm sure you agree to some extent. Yes it's unfair to the person who put in the effort to kill him if it was rolled back, but again if you look Davis pointed out a simple suggestion that would have solved all of these problems. FREEZE THE GAME, RECALL ALL MOBS. It's a gripes thread, and you tell him he shouldn't post his anger at a mistake (even if he were wrong he's entitled to post it, but he's even right in this case...)

Plus the fact that technically abusing server time to kill someone and then having taken away is much less annoying (to anybody who has any sense of logic) than dying because of it and nothing being done about it.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
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Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
It wasn't constructive criticism at all. The manner in which a problem is brought to the front is what is important.
I personally disagree that it really was his fault in any part. I imagine that by the time he was aware, it was too late to really stop everything, as stuff had already begun to happen. Can only really know from the man himself's PoV. I'll hold general judgement until then, though.
 

Razorwolf

Pruner
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
94
It wasn't constructive criticism at all. The manner in which a problem is brought to the front is what is important.
I personally disagree that it really was his fault in any part. I imagine that by the time he was aware, it was too late to really stop everything, as stuff had already begun to happen. Can only really know from the man himself's PoV. I'll hold general judgement until then, though.

Well as a client of the data centre doing majr work, im prety sure azzer woulda been told the work was being done. Now i know for a fact that when companies do major work to their servers the normally have someone there incase the whole system goes down. In this case bushtarion is a business and therefore probably should have been around just incase.. Or at least have someone stand in for himself. I'm not griping or complaining really, just pointing out what could be done differently
 
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Zaheen

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Feb 20, 2009
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802
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The Clouds
Dax like I said in my original post, I wasn't even affected by this so I don't care much. I posted to clamp out Alci who is, and always is wrong in arguments like these.

Razorwolf yeah in most games the server gets taken down completely to make it fair for all, I can only imagine/think that it was suppose to be a quick 5-10 minute job, which was delayed and the reason why Azzer didn't take it down.

That and, he can't please everyone as stated above. Oh well.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
No sir, I believe you missed the point.
Sir? No, I believe you're just being you again. If you actually open your eyes and READ next time, maybe you'll see perfectly clear of the reasoning behind my post.

I did read your post. I believe this was it.

snip snip snip
You don't think it's fair on those who have been able to play?

With almost every post you make you sound like such a dumbass, so it's perfectly fair for those who were unable to load up the login page to be raped/farmed? That is fair to you?

You missed the point entirely, as usual.

No I don't think it's fair on those who were able to play.

I think you'd find people who would disagree with your opinion as to my posts. Thanks for flaming. It is perfectly fair that those who were able to play kept playing. Yes it is fair to me.

Really. I didn't miss the point. You have four sentences there, I got your point. You think it was unfair for us to keep playing, and you think I'm an idiot and you think I missed the point "as usual".

So tell me Zaheen, what was the reasoning behind your post that I missed?

The risks were the same for both sides who were attacking or defending. The only advantage we had was the advantage that any attacker has, the initiative. We had members sending who were unable to send due to the server stuff, we had people lose units due to the server stutters, we had people almost die when they got retalled due to being unable to send out. There were inherent risks in attacking when you're not sure you can recall. We were lucky, others weren't so lucky. It's perfectly fair that since the game was working for me (on and off, mind you) I was allowed to keep playing.

Risks same on both sides? You see SOME OF US AROUND HERE don't frantically refresh the page for hours on end whilst the server is down, instead would rather go and watch some tv, a dvd, or go play some sports, another game perhaps.

Personally, I'd understand the server was having problems and being the cool awesome fair player I am, I wouldn't take advantage of this and kill someone, it's just not cool. Requires no skill. End of.

I wasn't frantically refreshing the page for hours. I was luckier than most and had a more or less fine connection throughout the time I was on; since I was one of a few who had a reliable connection, I stuck around to play defence in case we were under attack. Sometimes it didn't work, sometimes it did. I would hit refresh every few ticks in between watching Episodes of House MD and Big Bang theory. Feel free to come visit and check my PC history for the appropriate days if you don't believe me ;) I also played some Alpha Centauri while waiting for attacks to go down. Stop telling me what I was and wasn't doing on that day because you simply have no ****ing clue.

You make it sound like i was deliberately scheming to kill people who i knew couldn't get online. That's totally ridiculous. I didn't know who was able to get online or who couldn't. It would've been nice but it certainly wasn't the case. I was just playing the game as most people would've continued to do. Congratulations on being super awesome cool; you are probably the only player who would've stopped playing. Kudos.

My sympathies go out to those who were unable to get on, but I don't see why it should stop me from playing. I highly doubt if the circumstances had been reversed we would have received mercy due to being unable to reliably get online.
Good one, you give as much sympathy as George Bush gives to Iraq, after the bombs he planned there.

Better some sympathy than none ;) What does George Bush have to do with Bushtarion? How do you plan bombs?

Thanks Zaheen, for another invective filled post; next time, try to express your opinion without letting your unnatural hatred boil through. :)
Or else what? It's impossible to reply in a civil manner with you. However you'll notice I do reply in such a tone with normal and nice humane players.

I've never noticed you post civil responses anywhere. You simply get hateful with anyone who seems to disagree with you, and whom you cannot bully into silence. Shame on you. CF is one of the nicest, most competent players in this game and you have poured out several pages worth of vile words at him simply because of a disagreement of opinion. Doesn't sound like you're a very normal, nice or humane player to me.Perhaps if you treated others around you in a nicer manner, you would be treated nicely in return. Does tit for tat, mean anything to you? The proof is in the pudding ;)

The effort involved to get people online who were struggling, work out an attack plan, make sure everyone sent right etas/ticks etc. A lot of hard work went into trying to use our time as effectively as possible. We didn't just attack players who couldn't get online (how could we know who could/couldn't get on?) And what are you on about we "wouldn't be punished with a rollback?" We sure as hell would. A day's worth of attacking, planning, time etc all wasted because some people were having server issues? Pfft. Again, if the situation was reversed there's no doubt in my mind you guys would be arguing the opposite position ;)
Struggling to work out an attack plan?! You idiot, the situation would never be in reverse for any talented player, who doesn't take advantages of this type of play.

Again with the insults, so unnecessary! Just state your opinion without being so antagonistic and people are more likely to treat you with the respect you seem to think you deserve. Anyways, you don't seem to understand the difficulties inherent in planning any attack at all on an alliance scale, let alone one when you're not entirely certain everyone is going to be able to send. It's difficult, take my word for it (or don't I don't care).

There was no advantage taken, apart from the initiative of attacking. In the reverse situation (assuming Aphalla had the guts to get going an attack) we'd have been in a terrible situation. Or if res had decided to hit us then etc etc. We were just lucky in that nobody did attack us on a truly serious scale, with exception of a retal or two. I highly doubt that we weren't massed because Res and Aphalla were sitting there going "Oh, server issues, I definitely won't attack anyone, that just wouldn't be fair". Complete and utter bullshit.

Zaheen, you might be willing to avoid attacking during server issues, but I'd be willing to bet you'd be the only one. Also, if you and your ally were actually still in competition for rank 1, things might've occurred differently in your alliance. I'm not saying they would have, but it's a possibility worth considering, I think.

And again, for the rollback, what about those players who weren't rank 1/2/3? Are you going to punish them because you think it was unfair that events totally out of control of the game, playerbase, creator led to some people being unable to get on? Bullshit. That would be the far greater of the two evils we're discussing here imo.
Rollback is a rollback, it's suppose to be there for the MAJORITY of players affected, clearly to balance out the unfairness. But it really doesn't matter now, so there is no point you arguing something I posted at the time. Trust you to quote everything I say.

How do you know the majority of players were affected negatively? As far as I can see, the only people complaining in this thread are you and Aphalla members. That does not constitute a majority. I only quoted what you said because I disagreed with it, and at the time it was a relevant topic of discussion. Stop taking your own quotations out of context.

Razorwolf you're wasting your time debating with these idiotic...fools.
Seriously, just leave it you won't win or do yourself any favours - you already made your point and you're right. You don't need verification from these guys.

You may not need verification from us, but looking at the situation from another viewpoint certainly helps. We're allowed to have differing opinions, it's what keeps us healthy.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
CF is one of the nicest, most competent players in this game and you have poured out several pages worth of vile words at him simply because of a disagreement of opinion. Doesn't sound like you're a very normal, nice or humane player to me.Perhaps if you treated others around you in a nicer manner, you would be treated nicely in return. Does tit for tat, mean anything to you? The proof is in the pudding ;)

I totally agree with this, at the end of the day. How you addressed CF was not civilised or in any way respectful. I'm a firm believer in treat as you want to be treated, and it does come into my playing Bushtarion too - As well as general aspects of life.
Maybe stumping up some humility and some manners will redeem some of the things you have said to some of the core players of this game. It doesn't look good on yourself, it doesn't look good on the forum, and it doesn't look good for Azzer as a result.
Just end all this unnecessary fuss.
 

TehPantz

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
431
Location
USA
Agree with what you like, and carry on wasting your fail life breaking down my posts point by point, and continue arguing with me as long as you want.

Didn't you attempt to break his post down in post #26 of this thread? I do not understand your hostility against people arguing against your point. If you fail to see that there are always different view of the same topic, you will languish in the very subject of this thread.
 

Zaheen

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Something that isn't even in my post anymore.

Didn't you attempt to break his post down in post #26 of this thread? I do not understand your hostility against people arguing against your point. If you fail to see that there are always different view of the same topic, you will languish in the very subject of this thread.
It's not something I go out my way to do like him - besides my post has been edited about 20 times, so it doesn't really matter what I said, what you quoted and what I think - that'll never change.

I wish you quoted the lines under that comment too, before they were edited.
 

Davis

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
516
Location
usa
at this point at least azzer acnowledging the thing beyond his normal post would be great. but instead hes going to lurk in the shadows. which again goes to prove the reason this game is dying is becasue the owner doesn't care.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
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Messages
4,267
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Azzer cares, he's just busy. Weeble/DA have already apologized on his behalf. I don't see what else you want from Azzer?
 

Razorwolf

Pruner
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
94
Azzer cares, he's just busy. Weeble/DA have already apologized on his behalf. I don't see what else you want from Azzer?

well i would like to refer you back to my previous post :) very interesting how no one came up with a rebuttal for that
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
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Canada
It wasn't constructive criticism at all. The manner in which a problem is brought to the front is what is important.
I personally disagree that it really was his fault in any part. I imagine that by the time he was aware, it was too late to really stop everything, as stuff had already begun to happen. Can only really know from the man himself's PoV. I'll hold general judgement until then, though.

Well he was aware that the server was being upgraded as :!:he said in his post, I know for a fact that when companies do major work to their servers the normally have someone there incase the whole system goes down. In this case it is a business and therefore probably should have been around just incase.. Or at least have someone stand in for himself. I'm not griping or complaining really, just pointing out what could be done differently

This post you mean?

Azzer was busy, it was supposed to routine. When it did go down he let us know the situation.

Azzer has instituted a systemthat if the bush server cannot connect to major websites then the game stops ticking. As it turns out the game did connect so it didn't stop ticking.

Yes there were problems, yes it might have been handled differently. As it turns out it wasn't. We've received an apology. So I reiterate my question, what more do you want?
 
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