Player base and state of game

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
I be but a simple white boi and heres my take on the situation. This player-base is a joke. Not only are they cult like, where they can't even admit the simple fact this game is p2w, and no new players will come because of that fact.. but they a bunch of brain-dead retards too.

Not enough players, so they beg more bots ( which turns out to be a terrible idea)
Not enough players, so they asked for smaller alliances (on paper makes sense)
What does this player base do i wonder.. make a pact with every other alliance, leaving them with only but a handful of targets, which results in bashing them silly, which in turn reduces the player base even more 🤦‍♂️ u cant actually make up the level of retarded-ness i've witnessed this round

Thoughts on the changes
First of all, something needs to be done about this p2w mess we have become so use too, some of u guys (mainly the ones who have been given 'helper status' coincidentally) don't even consider it p2w loool. The best units for that route are behind a paywall people. Wake the **** up. Ohh but Dvs mate, u can counter them.. blah blah blahh.. the best ****ing units are behind a pay wall!! get rid of them or make them a normal unit. make some shitty unit like black knights that do jack ****, that cost the $5 or summik

Moving forward

i honesty cant see the point in this update, the unit changes are so negligible, what is the point? Jeeps are kinda broken tho and so are CG. The 15min delay on stats is a step backwards imo and i dont like it one bit.
the website being safe now is nice, good change, the website also looks a bit cleaners, also a nice change. emojis are a welcome addition also.
the id lists are broken and need reverting bk to the orginal state imo
balancing tweaks need to be made if the p2w aspect won't be addressed. Like lower the fire ini for sa, vamps, tls, marines, dragons, hypnos etc. Its actually jarring how good those p2w units are
the small delay after a tick is annoying, minor but annoying.

long story short, due to the level of retardedness and p2w aspect of the game, this will be my last round. This update had some potential, but the elephants in the room wasn't addressed imo

Alliances are still overpowered imo, the bashing people is actually jarring, should be a cap where u cant attack the same person more than 3 times a week or something.
solo need a buff, not some dowy 2.5% insurance. solo up against 12 people, with HQ units, eta 5 vision, a place to part their units at night and a damn defence boost. a solo has some **** gov defence that works against u if the attacker actually wanted your land, just send a decent amount, let sas kill some and they go and u get easy landz. The solos with high land count, might as well have 0 ar. The dev time is a mess this round, id say last round was worse but this round wasnt much better.

i dont actually expect azzar to address any of these issues considering its taken 13yrs to get this dowy/negligible update.. nor do i expect him to stop farming the cult like player base of their money every 2 months now.

GG
 
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Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
Who's gonna tell him about the current Rank 1 player?
P2w doesn't mean you win the game out right. It's means if you can buy an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise, or give you options you wouldn't of had otherwise it's pay 2 win. Also an entire mechanic is behind a paywall.. bribing. Cloners don't count because they so ****.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
P2w doesn't mean you win the game out right. It's means if you can buy an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise, or give you options you wouldn't of had otherwise it's pay 2 win. Also an entire mechanic is behind a paywall.. bribing. Cloners don't count because they so ****.
This game has never been p2w, and the very fact you think it is is more of an indictment of your ability to play than anything else. Buying P-Units does give you access to some units, but the units you access don't give you an automatic win - nor even an advantage - over players without P-Units.

There are no P-Units that can't be fairly easily killed off, blocked, or otherwise negated by non-Punits. The whole concept of your gripe (while deliciously nostalgic, and very funny) is just on the wrong foundation. There are no advantages that money buys you in this game, especially when you compare it to games that are actually P2W. Every P-Unit can be beaten by non-Punits. Every route can be played effectively without the Punit, although the challenge does vary but other than bribing routes, they are all effective.

As far as bribing goes, it was always meant to be a bit of fun, and a unique challenge for players, not a main focal point of bushtarion. So yeah, it's functionally hidden away behind a paywall, if you want, but that doesn't really bother anyone, nor should it.

The best units are not behind a paywall. That's laughable. RPGs/Strikers/Apaches/Harriers/POMs/PBs/Dogs/TDs/PA/Nanos/CG are all free. All the Punits have their own weaknesses, and are not really that amazing an advantage.
 

Treedude

Harvester
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
191
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
P2w doesn't mean you win the game out right. It's means if you can buy an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise, or give you options you wouldn't of had otherwise it's pay 2 win. Also an entire mechanic is behind a paywall.. bribing. Cloners don't count because they so ****.

Ah the old P2GAAYWHHO
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
You must be delusional if you actually think there is no advantage to BUYING p-units. I've seen first hand people buying GC to save land. As mentioned before, p2w doesn't mean you win the game out right..
Azzar is clearly capitalising on people's competitiveness, if p-units were **** and frankly pointless, not many people would buy them would they? Your argument is void, you shouldn't have to counter a brought and paid for unit. SA, TLs, Dragons, Marines, F11s, Vamps, Sentry, Scrapbots are all stupidly good, dare I say, jarringly good.

SA are needed imo, and frankly I haven't seen a assassin spec op without sa in years.. I wonder why.

Dragons are needed.

F11s are needed if you're solo

TLs make the thug route so much better, if you want to do some serious damage, they are needed

Vamps are needed

Marines are just too good, allows you to attack every route in game pretty much. Options you wouldn't of had otherwise

Sentry is a must if you actually plan on doing well

Scrapbots are very good, gargs are even better though considering if you actually manage to get a fair amount. 3.5m is the max every held, can you imagine fight that on mid tick???

I have to ask, is Azzar paying you?? Because your bias is clouding your reason.


This game has never been p2w, and the very fact you think it is is more of an indictment of your ability to play than anything else. Buying P-Units does give you access to some units, but the units you access don't give you an automatic win - nor even an advantage - over players without P-Units.

There are no P-Units that can't be fairly easily killed off, blocked, or otherwise negated by non-Punits. The whole concept of your gripe (while deliciously nostalgic, and very funny) is just on the wrong foundation. There are no advantages that money buys you in this game, especially when you compare it to games that are actually P2W. Every P-Unit can be beaten by non-Punits. Every route can be played effectively without the Punit, although the challenge does vary but other than bribing routes, they are all effective.

As far as bribing goes, it was always meant to be a bit of fun, and a unique challenge for players, not a main focal point of bushtarion. So yeah, it's functionally hidden away behind a paywall, if you want, but that doesn't really bother anyone, nor should it.

The best units are not behind a paywall. That's laughable. RPGs/Strikers/Apaches/Harriers/POMs/PBs/Dogs/TDs/PA/Nanos/CG are all free. All the Punits have their own weaknesses, and are not really that amazing an advantage.
 

Razorwolf

Pruner
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
94
I mean, you could just pay to support the game that you play instead of expecting everything for free. $5 is negligible in the grand scheme of things and honestly the p-units while extremely useful aren't p2w. You just need to learn how to play the route differently to if you had the p-unit or pick a route like Pom, rpg or the like where the p-unit isn't as "needed".
 

Macky21

Pruner
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
75
Location
Minnesota, USA
Not to mention p-units are free the last two weeks of the round, just start late and soak up the inactive players' land and super quick development
 

Treedude

Harvester
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
191
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
lol it isn't worth it guys. DVS has an extremely strict definition of what constitues P2W and will continue to bang that drum. By his narrow definition he is technically correct, but in reality and practical terms it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny (as you guys and many others before have demonstrated) and isn't actually the problem he makes it out to be.
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
lol it isn't worth it guys. DVS has an extremely strict definition of what constitues P2W and will continue to bang that drum. By his narrow definition he is technically correct, but in reality and practical terms it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny (as you guys and many others before have demonstrated) and isn't actually the problem he makes it out to be.
actully my definition is much broader than yours, and as such, many games can and do fall under my definition of p2w.. like so many other people outside this game.

"I mean, you could just pay to support the game that you play instead of expecting everything for free. $5 is negligible in the grand scheme of things and honestly the p-units while extremely useful aren't p2w ~ Razorwolf

I'll ignore that contradiction.

I have no issue helping to fund a game i play, like literally none, where i have an issue is, is people being strong-armed in funding "said" free to play game. If everything was available, id happily donate or even buy a goofy ass unit that does nothing but sound/look cool in a BR or something. Instead, the worse case implementation has been done, where if one truly wants to be competitive and do whats best for an alliance or even a solo group, p-units are in fact needed. As i posted in discord, i've never seen a FTW alliance or solo group without having p-units in its arsenal. More options, more power, more of a pain to deal with in general.. there go this game is mad P2W, its that simple. I think we can all agree buying game cash is also p2w.. tho imo to a lesser extent
 

Razorwolf

Pruner
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
94
actully my definition is much broader than yours, and as such, many games can and do fall under my definition of p2w.. like so many other people outside this game.

"I mean, you could just pay to support the game that you play instead of expecting everything for free. $5 is negligible in the grand scheme of things and honestly the p-units while extremely useful aren't p2w ~ Razorwolf

I'll ignore that contradiction.

I have no issue helping to fund a game i play, like literally none, where i have an issue is, is people being strong-armed in funding "said" free to play game. If everything was available, id happily donate or even buy a goofy ass unit that does nothing but sound/look cool in a BR or something. Instead, the worse case implementation has been done, where if one truly wants to be competitive and do whats best for an alliance or even a solo group, p-units are in fact needed. As i posted in discord, i've never seen a FTW alliance or solo group without having p-units in its arsenal. More options, more power, more of a pain to deal with in general.. there go this game is mad P2W, its that simple. I think we can all agree buying game cash is also p2w.. tho imo to a lesser extent
Holy crap, you read what you wanted and then took it out of context. The following sentence explained the reasoning for what i said and why its not p2w... p2w means you cant be competitive within the game without paying. Many people play the game and dont pay and are just as competitive as the rest. They just play the routes differently, or go routes that aren't as reliant on the p-unit.
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
Holy crap, you read what you wanted and then took it out of context. The following sentence explained the reasoning for what i said and why its not p2w... p2w means you cant be competitive within the game without paying. Many people play the game and dont pay and are just as competitive as the rest. They just play the routes differently, or go routes that aren't as reliant on the p-unit.
I didn't add it because it's basically the same contradiction.

You just need to learn how to play the route differently to if you had the p-unit or pick a route like Pom, rpg or the like where the p-unit isn't as "needed".

Isn't as needed" basically saying they kinda are. Hypno is a very strong unit, RO very strong too, granted they're not "needed" but if you're good and active they make the world of difference. Hypnos stops you from being flaked if solo, RO allow you to bounce back easy if you ever get pawned and make your LT slightly stronger. It goes back to what I said originally, if you want to be competitive, they are needed.

It's laughable how you guys try and say the best units in game aren't p2w when you clearly have to pay for them. As far as the bribing machanic goes, Azzar is like, "u want to have fun? Pay me bishh"

I remember years ago when the game was rampant with multis and Brad was buying everyone in our alliance Bush credits like a mad man.. guess who makes an appearance due to seeing how much money was spent that round? Azzar himself ofc.

I'm of the opinion the only reason that email was sent saying there was an "update" (and let's be serious, it's caused more issues than anything) was to farm you bots some more.

Could have changed up the meta, no. Could have made proper balancing tweeks, no. Could have made a new route, no. Could have made the microtransactions respectable, no. He should have sold the game years ago in my opinion.

When a new player comes and gets to the end of their route and realises it's behind a pay wall, gets Inc from stealth units that reveal at ETA 1 and pawn all his **** before they can even fire.. or worse get bribed silly, I have little to no doubt the thoughts going through that person's mind would be it's pay to win.
 

Razorwolf

Pruner
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
94
Wow you are so narrow minded it is insane... p2w implies you CANNOT be competitive in a game without buying. That is simply not true in this game. You can buy all the p-units you want and still be shat on by a player with... (now pay attention...) NO p-unit..

😱
😱


"When a new player comes and gets to the end of their route and realises it's behind a pay wall, gets Inc from stealth units that reveal at ETA 1 and pawn all his **** before they can even fire.. or worse get bribed silly, I have little to no doubt the thoughts going through that person's mind would be it's pay to win."

Even players with p-units experience this? I don't understand your logic? Most incoming people get in this game is always gonna result in the defender getting **** on because the attackers are normally so much bigger, regardless if the defender has a p-unit or not. That's where alliance play comes in.... mhmm, defence... mhmm... maybe a novel concept to you perhaps? You can splash around as much game cash and p-units as you want, but without a winning alliance having your back, thats not gonna get you anywhere.

If you cant afford to pay 5 bucks for a game you play because all you can afford to live in is a box, thats fine. Make some friends, buddy up and attack together, defend together and play as the game is intended and have fun. Im just gonna ignore anything more you say on this topic beyond this point because trying to explain it to you again seems pointless.

Have a good day.
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
Wow you are so narrow minded it is insane... p2w implies you CANNOT be competitive in a game without buying. That is simply not true in this game. You can buy all the p-units you want and still be shat on by a player with... (now pay attention...) NO p-unit..

😱
😱


"When a new player comes and gets to the end of their route and realises it's behind a pay wall, gets Inc from stealth units that reveal at ETA 1 and pawn all his **** before they can even fire.. or worse get bribed silly, I have little to no doubt the thoughts going through that person's mind would be it's pay to win."

Even players with p-units experience this? I don't understand your logic? Most incoming people get in this game is always gonna result in the defender getting **** on because the attackers are normally so much bigger, regardless if the defender has a p-unit or not. That's where alliance play comes in.... mhmm, defence... mhmm... maybe a novel concept to you perhaps? You can splash around as much game cash and p-units as you want, but without a winning alliance having your back, thats not gonna get you anywhere.

If you cant afford to pay 5 bucks for a game you play because all you can afford to live in is a box, thats fine. Make some friends, buddy up and attack together, defend together and play as the game is intended and have fun. Im just gonna ignore anything more you say on this topic beyond this point because trying to explain it to you again seems pointless.

Have a good day.
Thats your opinion and P2W to many (not just me good self) means, if u can spend irl money to get an advantage in any way shape or form, its p2w, because youre buying an advantage! P-units give u an advantage, there go it p2w. Every game nowadays has some form of microtransaction, the différance is, this isn't a mobile app with hundreds/thousands of users, this p2w model is jarring in such an old/small game. If u go solo, u are basically locked in to 2 routes, 3 if u count marines as not must haves, but considering how good/broken they are, they're basically must haves

again, its no coincidence that every FTW alliance has p-units coming out of their asses. It's that simple.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
Thats your opinion and P2W to many (not just me good self) means, if u can spend irl money to get an advantage in any way shape or form, its p2w, because youre buying an advantage! P-units give u an advantage, there go it p2w. Every game nowadays has some form of microtransaction, the différance is, this isn't a mobile app with hundreds/thousands of users, this p2w model is jarring in such an old/small game. If u go solo, u are basically locked in to 2 routes, 3 if u count marines as not must haves, but considering how good/broken they are, they're basically must haves

again, its no coincidence that every FTW alliance has p-units coming out of their asses. It's that simple.
Non-FTW allies also have P-units coming out of their asses, and have for more than 15 years. What's the difference?
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
Non-FTW allies also have P-units coming out of their asses, and have for more than 15 years. What's the difference?
the difference is theyre not ftw lool. if youre ftw youre basically strong armed into getting p-units. Granted, not everyone in the alliance HAS to get them, IE, pom.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,121
Location
Northants, UK
The only PU I have a remote issue with is Marines, but as someone that has played Striker in 3 winning alliances I understand why they are so ridiculous as much as I understand their "purpose" (I would still like to see their offensive ability lessened if they are really meant to be a specialist LETflak unit), but otherwise I have played every route without PUs whereby it is rational to do so (playing Puppets without Puppets is straight up stupid, but very doable). TL are only really "necessary" in the VD route, but ironically this was one of the first routes I ever played and I did so without ever buying them. I had a great time?

There are some routes where the PU is vital and without it the route is next to worthless, but ultimately this is purely a tactical viewpoint. Vampires for example you CAN play without Vampires. Gargoyles and Werewolves are both very decent ETA 3 flakking/flak-busting units for more potent ETA 3 LETs (Harriers/PB). SO without SA is still incredibly potent without SA and the Sin/Ninja combination is devastating if against the right opposition. RO and Hypnos are completely unnecessary and if anything dilute the route's overall effectiveness with them included in any meaningful number. It takes a lot of talent and knowledge to counter that score anchor and make it pay dividends. Speaking as the guy who holds that all-time Gargantua record (it was 3.6m, not 3.5m just to be finnicky about it), they are a unit you have to work VERY hard and VERY smart to get any worthwhile number of - and when you do, your score becomes dumped almost entirely in a unit that only fires in m/c, so are hugely vulnerable to people taking free ranged tick potshots at your army as and when they please.

If you're really suffering that much at playing without PU, why don't you just ask for a hand from someone who knows about the game? I've taken time out to help countless people over the years with ratio based information (btw you think CG are overpowered NOW?! Try seeing the complaints from the round where Cheese and I had them ****ing nerfed into the ground and setting a route stealing meta that has lasted over a decade since) - it takes two minutes to pipe up and ask and only the stingiest and snootiest left playing would turn you away or mock you for asking. Most of us are actually relatively well-formed adults at this stage and are more than able to share help with those who need it. I can't help you with your misplaced views of pay units (and the laughably shitty influence of game cash), but I CAN offer to help make you a more knowledgeable player.
 

Dvs

Digger
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
8
The only PU I have a remote issue with is Marines, but as someone that has played Striker in 3 winning alliances I understand why they are so ridiculous as much as I understand their "purpose" (I would still like to see their offensive ability lessened if they are really meant to be a specialist LETflak unit), but otherwise I have played every route without PUs whereby it is rational to do so (playing Puppets without Puppets is straight up stupid, but very doable). TL are only really "necessary" in the VD route, but ironically this was one of the first routes I ever played and I did so without ever buying them. I had a great time?

There are some routes where the PU is vital and without it the route is next to worthless, but ultimately this is purely a tactical viewpoint. Vampires for example you CAN play without Vampires. Gargoyles and Werewolves are both very decent ETA 3 flakking/flak-busting units for more potent ETA 3 LETs (Harriers/PB). SO without SA is still incredibly potent without SA and the Sin/Ninja combination is devastating if against the right opposition. RO and Hypnos are completely unnecessary and if anything dilute the route's overall effectiveness with them included in any meaningful number. It takes a lot of talent and knowledge to counter that score anchor and make it pay dividends. Speaking as the guy who holds that all-time Gargantua record (it was 3.6m, not 3.5m just to be finnicky about it), they are a unit you have to work VERY hard and VERY smart to get any worthwhile number of - and when you do, your score becomes dumped almost entirely in a unit that only fires in m/c, so are hugely vulnerable to people taking free ranged tick potshots at your army as and when they please.

If you're really suffering that much at playing without PU, why don't you just ask for a hand from someone who knows about the game? I've taken time out to help countless people over the years with ratio based information (btw you think CG are overpowered NOW?! Try seeing the complaints from the round where Cheese and I had them ****ing nerfed into the ground and setting a route stealing meta that has lasted over a decade since) - it takes two minutes to pipe up and ask and only the stingiest and snootiest left playing would turn you away or mock you for asking. Most of us are actually relatively well-formed adults at this stage and are more than able to share help with those who need it. I can't help you with your misplaced views of pay units (and the laughably shitty influence of game cash), but I CAN offer to help make you a more knowledgeable player.
Fair play. Not saying PU are the key to having fun, just saying its p2w xD The stronger/more options u have will probably have a positive effect on the fun to be had.. ie pawning more noobs.

I know a guy who has saved his land twice this round through buying GC lol Thats mad p2w. Long story short, if the units weren't behind a pay wall and some quirky unit replaced them, i think the over all Bush experience would be better.

Thanks for the offer big man but i wouldn't want to lower your standing by helping the likes of me 🤪
 
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