Flak Ratios & Harvester calc

Joss

Pruner
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May 22, 2008
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52
Does anyone have flak ratios or/and an up-to-date harvester calc lying around?

Would be helpful to have them as I can't bother to use firefox just for bushtarion :p
 

Joss

Pruner
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May 22, 2008
Messages
52
Best ratios are usually on flak (bar PAs and rangers and stuff).

But doesn't e.g. LET/ALL mean that only 30% target INN (even if no other types of units present), so best ratios can be about 70% + 30% (full firepower, against e.g. attack dogs and gardeners) not just attacking pure INN flak.

Yes, I mean INN flak ratios, not any type of "flak".
 
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tobapopalos

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But most of what gets killed will be gards. It is good enough if you're too lazy to just learn the ratios.
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
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I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Apaches will get a lot better ratios on dogs and flak than flak alone (them targetting LET INN). Joss' question is totally legit, unfortunately I don't have it. You could get NBS and then hax and note down all the numbers (it has them on the hover over tooltip), and afaik those are accurate on gards.
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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most of the time most of what gets killed is flak. But on the not so often occasion that doggies and/or armour strippers and/or sirens are involved, that's when you get best ratios.

So yeah, it'll do if youre too lazy to work it out yourself it gives a good indication, but is far from accurate.
 

Max

Garden Designer
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Also note that some NBS values are out-dated!

I would take the "Best Ratios" thread and use it as a point of first call though. Then naturally, just reduce it slightly to get an indication of the true value.

I haven't got anything tabulated to send you though, unfortunately I just use what I know from experience :(
 

tobapopalos

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I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Apaches will get a lot better ratios on dogs and flak than flak alone (them targetting LET INN). Joss' question is totally legit, unfortunately I don't have it. You could get NBS and then hax and note down all the numbers (it has them on the hover over tooltip), and afaik those are accurate on gards.

I don't disagree that in some cases units will get better ratios on LETs + flak, but if you're going to be lazy about it you might as well use the best ratios thread. If you're attacking apaches with flak and the best ratio is 1:20 then you can safely assume the apaches you're attacking won't kill more than 1:20 (made up that ratio so please don't be all OMG APACHES DON'T DO 1:20!!!!11!1!).
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
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Apr 26, 2008
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I doubt any of the NBS numbers are out of date - pretty sure he only put that function in after Azzer stopped updating the game...

Harvester calc=136.392 harvesters/bush 42.624 harvesters/tree for start of round. NBS is 100% accurate in its calculations for it now (it used to be slightly off a while back).
 

antisback

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
429
Harvesters per acres
Tree
Spring/Summer: 42.64
Autumn/Winter: 92.32
Bush
All: 136.32
Flower
Summer: 839.84
Others: 530.4
Grass
Spring: 2478
Others: 1363.92

It tails off at higher acres but it won't matter too much
 

Koeniej

Harvester
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
183
Meh, it might not me on pure flak then, but it has allways worked pretty well for me :)
I dont really see the problem, if you use the 'best ratio's' you dont have anything to worry about! If you really want the real ratio's so badly then you should, like most people said, just find them out yourself!
 

Koeniej

Harvester
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Dec 14, 2007
Messages
183
I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Apaches will get a lot better ratios on dogs and flak than flak alone (them targetting LET INN). Joss' question is totally legit, unfortunately I don't have it. You could get NBS and then hax and note down all the numbers (it has them on the hover over tooltip), and afaik those are accurate on gards.

I dont doubt that you are right at all, and i wont say that apaches dont get better ratio's on LET+flak then on only flak but.. didn't the people who submitted their ratio's to the 'best ratio's' thread test it on pure flak? If not i was deceived all this time! :p
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
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Australia
I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Apaches will get a lot better ratios on dogs and flak than flak alone (them targetting LET INN). Joss' question is totally legit, unfortunately I don't have it. You could get NBS and then hax and note down all the numbers (it has them on the hover over tooltip), and afaik those are accurate on gards.

I dont doubt that you are right at all, and i wont say that apaches dont get better ratio's on LET+flak then on only flak but.. didn't the people who submitted their ratio's to the 'best ratio's' thread test it on pure flak? If not i was deceived all this time! :p

nope. it seems you have been deceived :p

for example, yobs will never get 2.33 on pure flak. Need NLD for that ratio.

many ratios probably originally came from pure flak, but the more recent better ones would likely come from LET as well. and that's how many of those ratios can become assisted by rpg/sirens to get even better ratios.

from what I recall, when sirens stun a unit, they restore their armour to before they fired, and leave them with zero health? so the armour hitters firing after can get v good ratios. I imagine assassins and hooligans would get sweet ratios firing after sirens.
 

jamesNchina

Tree Surgeon
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Dec 28, 2010
Messages
587
Location
Dalian China
I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Apaches will get a lot better ratios on dogs and flak than flak alone (them targetting LET INN). Joss' question is totally legit, unfortunately I don't have it. You could get NBS and then hax and note down all the numbers (it has them on the hover over tooltip), and afaik those are accurate on gards.

I dont doubt that you are right at all, and i wont say that apaches dont get better ratio's on LET+flak then on only flak but.. didn't the people who submitted their ratio's to the 'best ratio's' thread test it on pure flak? If not i was deceived all this time! :p

nope. it seems you have been deceived :p

for example, yobs will never get 2.33 on pure flak. Need NLD for that ratio.

many ratios probably originally came from pure flak, but the more recent better ones would likely come from LET as well. and that's how many of those ratios can become assisted by rpg/sirens to get even better ratios.

from what I recall, when sirens stun a unit, they restore their armour to before they fired, and leave them with zero health? so the armour hitters firing after can get v good ratios. I imagine assassins and hooligans would get sweet ratios firing after sirens.

I believe you are wrong after my experience with sirens last round. It is/was supposed to be that anything the sirens stunned the armor would be in full force next tick.. but it aint so from what I could see, and I heard tell that Azzer never made the fix on that... so those suckers stand bare naked for the the next tick :p
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
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uk
i concur with whats been said, using the "best" ratio as the basis of what a unit can do on innocents and sending more than that will work well enough. but if you have specific units in mind then just ask. most people know enough to help when it comes to flak. most people will know to assume 1 pom stops 10 gardeners defencively but to assume if trying to flak past them you should act like they can stop 15 gardeners. and the actual value is some where in between. but due to every battle and unit getting a random factor giving a small increase or decrease in damage its not worth knowing the actual value. just what the upper limit of its capabilities are. and suppasing them.


on a side:
from what I recall, when sirens stun a unit, they restore their armour to before they fired, and leave them with zero health? so the armour hitters firing after can get v good ratios. I imagine assassins and hooligans would get sweet ratios firing after sirens.

I believe you are wrong after my experience with sirens last round. It is/was supposed to be that anything the sirens stunned the armor would be in full force next tick.. but it aint so from what I could see, and I heard tell that Azzer never made the fix on that... so those suckers stand bare naked for the the next tick :p

no he is correct. the sirens bug was intentionally left in. They stun by taking away all the units health and armour then restoring it. but the bug prevented health from being restored. leaving a unit on 1 health (not one star but actual base value 1 health) the only improvement in ratios you get from sirens is there being very little health damage needed and the same armour damage as always would be needed. so very effective if used right. also if a unit has been stripped before the sirens, they will only restore the AD they did

....this in itself i think could be buggy. i cant prove it but for hapstance. imagine you stripped 10 cybernetic warriors of 100 total that get stunned. instead of the sirens restoring the armour theyve taken from the 10 they stripped and leaving the other 90 CW on full, I have a sneaky feeling they restore the armour to all 100 CW minus the Ad done but spread among the units. so instead of 10 unts on low armour and 90 units untouched. you could have 100 units with a little less armour. I think this because the code would be complex to break down imo and azzer is sometimes a little lazy. Though far from impossible as most of the mechanics are already in place to do such a thing. but if im right, this would give the appearance of even highly armoured units being weaker after being stunned by sirens, when you have pre siren stripping.
 
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CFalcon

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Dec 14, 2007
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Kent UK
I'm highly sceptical of the "health stripping" idea. I've never been able to reproduce it, and have a feeling that it was fixed on the quiet a while ago.

As to your second idea, absolutely not true. It would be insane to calculate each unit's individual status at each phase of battle. Instead, units of the same type/range are treated as a pool or stack.

To those saying the Best Ratios thread should be good enough as a guideline, cos if unit X can potentially achieve 1:20 then that's he number you need to aim for; what if you're trying to find the minimum number you need to flak past someone to try and avoid AR? Or the minimum staff you need to stop a flak incoming? Using the maximum possible ratio in that situation is madness.
 
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tobapopalos

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Surely it's just common sense to say "ok, well if this unit targets LET/INN and the best ratio is 1:20, and we have an incoming of 20m flak...let's send 2m to defend against it to be safe."

MADNESS!!!
 
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