• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Bushtarion safe mode

TehPantz

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
431
Location
USA
I have read countless threads about solving the numerous problems involving general game play in Bushtarion. I think the problem lies in game mechanics. Attacking power in the game is unfriendly toward new players which was almost unnoticeable when lots of people played. With a severe lack of players there are serious flaws that have not been fixed. With ally ranks 1 and 2 being decided very early on, it leaves the usual competitive race for ranks 3,4,5,6, etc. With a lack of players, these lower allies are usually full of newer players. This creates a vicious circle of 'rage quitting' because less players means more bashing/repeat attacking and less time to learn the game. With increased preying on new players, they quit more easily...then the cycle repeats. It is impossible to attract new players to the game with the current system. Even if you did spend money on ads, they would try the game and many would immediately quit.

My suggestion:

Instead of changing allies with random placement or size. Azzer should incorporate a safety system for new people. Have everyone in SAFE MODE at the game starts. Safe mode allows you to play like normal except you cannot attack or be attacked. When you DO attack, you leave safemode forever. Increase the number of bots (who ofc are not in safemode) to create incentive. This allows new people to stay in safe mode for as long as they want in order to learn the game w/out pressure.

Safe mode would create new mechanics for allies because safe mode players would grow slower, but not be in danger.

I know people are afraid of big changes, but small changes won't cut it. I too am nostalgic about how great this game was 10 rounds ago, but we can never get back there until something drastic is done.
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
UK
How are you supposed to learn anything about the game, or grow, if you can't attack or be attacked? And if a new player doesn't even know the basic's on the game, then they are gonna be tiny anyway and lose next to no acres anyway. 40? 50 acres? If they dont even know the basics?

On another point which keeps getting brought up - rounds were decided far quicker in the past than they are these days. Sometimes rounds would be over before the weekend even finished. Also if you look at recent rounds, bar the Laststand and Hell round, the rounds were not decided fast at all.

Round 25 -> 3 allies rank 1. Round goes to the last few days. 70+ Days.
Round 26 -> 3 Allies rank 1. Round takes aprox 30-40 days to decide.
Round 27 -> 3 allies rank 1. Only took 20-25 days due to loads of people playing crazy route set ups.
Round 28 -> 3/4 allies had rank 1. About 30-40 days till decided.
Round 29 -> Exitlude had rank 1. Aprox 30-40 days in get taken down by resistance.
Round 30 -> Fail round.
Round 31 -> 3 allies had rank 1. About 45-55 days till decided.
Round 32 -> Aprox 25-30 days to decide.
Round 33 -> 3 allies rank 1. About 40 days to decide.
Round 34 -> Ended early.
Round 35 -> 3 allies rank 1. 40 days to decide.
Round 36 -> Looked like it took 30-40 days?
Round 37 -> 3 Alliances all sameish score. Could go on for a long time.

Jus' sayin.
 

TehPantz

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
431
Location
USA
Your are splitting hairs about the rounds being decided. The fact is that bushtarion is losing and has lost too many people.

The beauty about a safe mode is that veteran players can play as usual by attacking bots, then others who have left safe mode. New players can learn at their own pace and get nuances of the game down before dealing with actual combat. They can decide for themselves when they feel ready to attack and defend. The downside to Safe mode IS not being able to grow much. I think oldie players have forgotten how many things there are to check out with bushtarion. They can compare tech trees, units, allies, and find the forums. In order to get more people, we have to increase this noob friendly atmosphere and ease people in.
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
UK
No. You didn't read what i said before disproving your point about rank 1. That was just a tangent 'cos im sick of people claiming that without looking at it.

If a player doesn't even know the basics yet, one would assume they are on less than 1000 acres, probally around the 700 acres mark. Most likey that would take them a long time to get anyway. I would assume they would be getting attacked by other relativly new people also.

The playerbase is declining. So you want to take away more human players away as targets for those slightly higher than them. Adding more bots is not what the game needs.
 

Zaheen

BANNED
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
802
Location
The Clouds
I like the idea Pantz, but you'll be taking away too much fun of attacking at the start from the real vets.

I think the game needs more honesty and fairness when any new player is concerned. I don't think pushing people to be contactable and has done this game any good, it's pushed a lot of players out of the game and it will continue to do so, with or without any other suggestion.
 

pinpower

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
2,136
Location
Bournemouth
I have often thought that there could be a "Safe Mode" or "Beginners Mode" for 48/72 hours after a new ID is created for a "new" account. So actual NEW players have a couple of days to ease into it, read up/talk to other players etc

Obviously there's the possibility for abuse from older players creating a new account to get this benefit but really, its fairly easy to see and in the long run wouldn't be beneficial. And maybe (like Pantz said) this mode would be automatically disabled if the ID starts attacking itself?

I like the idea in general as long as its for a short time span and only to be used for a persons first round.
 

webvictim

Harvester
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
155
Location
California
I think it might be interesting if the tutorial could be fleshed out a bit for truly brand new IDs (perhaps incorporating a starting time period like pinpower has suggested), but kept in its current state for those who've played already.
 

tobapopalos

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,759
Location
Manchester
I have often thought that there could be a "Safe Mode" or "Beginners Mode" for 48/72 hours after a new ID is created for a "new" account. So actual NEW players have a couple of days to ease into it, read up/talk to other players etc

Obviously there's the possibility for abuse from older players creating a new account to get this benefit but really, its fairly easy to see and in the long run wouldn't be beneficial. And maybe (like Pantz said) this mode would be automatically disabled if the ID starts attacking itself?

I like the idea in general as long as its for a short time span and only to be used for a persons first round.

I don't think it would get abused by older players. And even if it did, what difference would it really make? It would just mean they couldn't attack, which most older players know is not a good thing. So it gives new players a few days to learn a bit about growing, farming, maybe read up on routes, without them logging in and seeing all their land gone, but older players know that to get a good start you need to steal land rather than buy it, so imo they wouldn't do it. Of course there is the possibility of someone deciding before the round starts that they're just going to buy their land and then sit on it for the entire round, but there are pretty obvious safeguards against that kind of thing (safe mode only lasts for 1 week, or whatever number is best).
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,121
Location
Northants, UK
I don't think it would get abused by older players. And even if it did, what difference would it really make? It would just mean they couldn't attack, which most older players know is not a good thing. So it gives new players a few days to learn a bit about growing, farming, maybe read up on routes, without them logging in and seeing all their land gone, but older players know that to get a good start you need to steal land rather than buy it, so imo they wouldn't do it. Of course there is the possibility of someone deciding before the round starts that they're just going to buy their land and then sit on it for the entire round, but there are pretty obvious safeguards against that kind of thing (safe mode only lasts for 1 week, or whatever number is best).

These were pretty much my thoughts on this. If people abuse this system, it doesn't really say anything but how terrible they are to need to do it.
I like the idea, and it is similar to the 5 land rule, without the ability for it to be abused to such the extent that rule could be. Get this implemented, get some ads up, and get another training alliance going with active tutors.
 

Weeble

Community Manager
Administrator
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
869
Location
UK
It's an interesting idea... could be worth incubating. Will have a thinkieroo.
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
I think this would be a step in the wrong direction. Like sleep mode suggestions, the motive behind it is good, but the outcome would be detrimental.

As has been said dozens of times, if you want to stop ragequitting from losing everything in a tick, then stop battles being so drastic. Don't just stop battles happening all together. That's a sure fast-trak to a completely dead game. We need *more* battles with *less* consequences.
 

Enrico

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
518
I think a "safe mode" in effect untill a) one week has passed b) the player controls more than 700 acres c) he/she attacks a non-bot - whatever happens first.

I would add the "attack a non-bot" as that means a new player can try sending attacks on bots and learn the mechanic. Bot land is usually crappy (flowers/grass early on is not that nice) and most experienced players know that attacking before you have around 700 acres or more are not the most effective way to gain land anyway.

Just add more bots in the start, and I think no-one would feel left out, and it would make it easier and less painful to learn the game.
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
975
Location
Oslo, Norway
I agree with the above poster. Only I'd make it 1k instead of 700. And seeing how nobody benefits from being capped at 999 acres, nobody going ftw or even anything like it would stop there, but it gives some leeway to new players. They should also receive a mail (after completing the tutorial or something) of a few bot IDs, so they don't accidently break their safety.

Or even better - that the first attack you make that sends you out of the safe mode comes with a warning, and a confirmation button.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
I agree with the above poster. Only I'd make it 1k instead of 700. And seeing how nobody benefits from being capped at 999 acres, nobody going ftw or even anything like it would stop there, but it gives some leeway to new players. They should also receive a mail (after completing the tutorial or something) of a few bot IDs, so they don't accidently break their safety.

Or even better - that the first attack you make that sends you out of the safe mode comes with a warning, and a confirmation button.

Support 100%
 

Cody

Planter
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
32
Location
Ohio
Round 36 -> Looked like it took 30-40 days?

actually round was won within the first 2-3 weeks then alot of backstabbing took place... in other words: rank 1 alliance split up, larger members made another alliance, then that alliance split up and created mainly the original alliance minus a few people
 
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