• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

White Knights and Honor.

Stegosaurus

Pruner
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
82
Fix them. They've been made into a joke, the entire h/f system is.

I like it in theory, but as most players can tell you, it doesn't really serve a purpose right now. We still have the same number of people "bashing", the same number of people complaining about bashing, and people rarely hitting up high for bounty, because they're just too well protected.

The 'big boy bounties' was a step in the right direction, but it came with it's own host of problems as we're all aware. White knights were also a good step, but are currently much too weak to really make a difference.


I propose white knights be returned to their former glory with the low init, made immobile, have a higher cap; plus either:

a) Fire only on those with red titles (scaling damage...).
b) Fire only on the ranged tick.
c) Become a little hardier, and fire only on m/c or possibly just close.

This returns them to a state, where are you are actually being rewarded for being honourable - by being a less attractive target, rather than being given a handful of mostly useless units. It also stops people from losing crazy amounts of flak when an entire alliance of green titles defends an attack.

Hopefully, this would increase the value of honor, and cause people to actively try getting it. Especially if a were implemented. Right now I have a particularly red title, and couldn't care less about it. I might think differently, if I had to lose 100m flak every time I hit someone green however.

Unfortunately I have no clue how to fix the top alliance being an untouchable powerhouse. Any suggestion I can think of, would be (rightfully) shot down by - "Why punish them for doing well?"
 

Tapeyy

Pruner
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
57
yeah white knights are pointless in there current state, seal of approval.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
Thumbs up for immobile from me as well, I can't imagine why they weren't designed like that in the first place.
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
ive not been attacked since being honourable so i couldnt say. but i quite liked the idea of sweeping with them since the change. so dunno the advantage or point of immobile? please fill me in on why? they seem to die when ever i attack a green target without firing generally. (well since i deved a bit more). So really i think they dont do enough now by comparison to previously but maybe they do just enough to put off an attacker? who knows.

they certainly help flak counters as a solo. anyway just my 2 cents
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
I'd say to bring in more units for the honorable. Or perhaps give a choice for variety. Like choose between WKs or something that disables but does more damage, or something hardy and INN classed, maybe even a tough land thief (slow to supply). With WKs, another idea is to make them able to be used in attacks again, except quite weak, but with bonuses against the dishonorable, for example

White Knight
LET [kills]
*/*/*/*
+200% HD: against dishonorable players
+100% HD: when defending
+200% AD: against dishonorable players
+100% AD: when defending

Just an idea :)
 

alwaysnumb

Head Gardener
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
309
Location
London
the knights are bonus things they aint the main body of your troops seems to me that they should die easy. last round they was too strong this round they are much better. Last round they didnt fair well against sa or vamps at least now snipers and others get a chance to shoot them 1st.
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
the knights are bonus things they aint the main body of your troops seems to me that they should die easy. last round they was too strong this round they are much better. Last round they didnt fair well against sa or vamps at least now snipers and others get a chance to shoot them 1st.

he's not suggesting to remove the caps on them you know, they won't be the main body of your army...
 

WackyJacky

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
274
Location
USA
White knights suck.

At low ranks 95% of players have them. Goodbye flakking.

gripegripegripegripe.
 

Dimitar

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
2,388
White knights suck.

At low ranks 95% of players have them. Goodbye flakking.

gripegripegripegripe.

low players have a low h/f rating. A low H/F rating means low amounts of WKs.

Even low H/F gives enough WKs to rape the low amount of flak that people have in the lower ranks.

Winner.

White Knight
LET [kills]
*/*/*/*
+200% HD: against dishonorable players
+100% HD: when defending
+200% AD: against dishonorable players
+100% AD: when defending


Why put a bonus "when defending" if all they can do is defend? You can't send WKs in attack, remember?
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
White knights suck.

At low ranks 95% of players have them. Goodbye flakking.

gripegripegripegripe.

low players have a low h/f rating. A low H/F rating means low amounts of WKs.

Even low H/F gives enough WKs to rape the low amount of flak that people have in the lower ranks.

Winner.

White Knight
LET [kills]
*/*/*/*
+200% HD: against dishonorable players
+100% HD: when defending
+200% AD: against dishonorable players
+100% AD: when defending


Why put a bonus "when defending" if all they can do is defend? You can't send WKs in attack, remember?

did you read my post?? I suggested making them able to attack......
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
I'd say to bring in more units for the honorable. Or perhaps give a choice for variety. Like choose between WKs or something that disables but does more damage, or something hardy and INN classed, maybe even a tough land thief (slow to supply).

I actually really like the idea of multiple different kinds of Honourable units. MOAR NLTS! I don't really know what they should be, but I definitely think this could be fun. Who knows tho, looking at how disastrously WKs/WWs have turned out, perhaps we shouldn't be adding yet more units.

With WKs, another idea is to make them able to be used in attacks again, except quite weak, but with bonuses against the dishonorable, for example

White Knight
LET [kills]
*/*/*/*
+200% HD: against dishonorable players
+100% HD: when defending
+200% AD: against dishonorable players
+100% AD: when defending

Just an idea :)


Why make them able to attack if you're only going to weaken them? Seems counter productive. Make it aggressive, and next to useless, or keep it defensive and make it (somewhat) more useful. I dunno, just seems a little undeveloped as an idea.

I do, however, think the idea of bonuses versus dishonourable players could be very very interesting. Depending what sort of bonuses you got, there are all manner of fascinating things you could do to truly make being honourable worth it.

So, a mixed bag imo.
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
I'd say to bring in more units for the honorable. Or perhaps give a choice for variety. Like choose between WKs or something that disables but does more damage, or something hardy and INN classed, maybe even a tough land thief (slow to supply).

I actually really like the idea of multiple different kinds of Honourable units. MOAR NLTS! I don't really know what they should be, but I definitely think this could be fun. Who knows tho, looking at how disastrously WKs/WWs have turned out, perhaps we shouldn't be adding yet more units.

With WKs, another idea is to make them able to be used in attacks again, except quite weak, but with bonuses against the dishonorable, for example

White Knight
LET [kills]
*/*/*/*
+200% HD: against dishonorable players
+100% HD: when defending
+200% AD: against dishonorable players
+100% AD: when defending

Just an idea :)


Why make them able to attack if you're only going to weaken them? Seems counter productive. Make it aggressive, and next to useless, or keep it defensive and make it (somewhat) more useful. I dunno, just seems a little undeveloped as an idea.

I do, however, think the idea of bonuses versus dishonourable players could be very very interesting. Depending what sort of bonuses you got, there are all manner of fascinating things you could do to truly make being honourable worth it.

So, a mixed bag imo.

the big aim for me was actually to do the flip and make being dishonorable not worth it, thats what the major bonus is.
 

Bengy

Planter
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
42
Maybe have the white knights as they are, same INT and HR/AR but make their strength on a sliding scale related to how honourable the defence is, so if you recieve little honour for defeneding they do a reduced amount of damage, if used in an honourable defence they fight more valiantly and do more damage.
 

Davs

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
948
Location
England
everyone spent last round complaining about how powerful they where...

This was mainly due to how early they fired in attacks, and the fact that they come come out so stupidly early.

I personally still think that they come out too early, but the concept of switching their release with that of wizards (which strikes me as the obvious fix) seems to be generally rejected.
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
Something needs to change, because I agree that if you have a decent alliance, then the H/F system in indeed a joke. In my opinion, if someone is making a hugely dishonorable attack (i.e. at someone <50% of them with a certain % of LETs), then the honor for fighting back should go up a lot more. I also support government sending in troops to defend dishonorable hits (<40% with a large %/# of LETs and a hugely negative H/F rating) besides antirape. Or, send troops at those players. Not retarded numbers of retardedly powerful troops, but something to deter them from getting a 40% bounty even if they are in a good alliance. Hell, it would give them a chance to get some of their honor back. Again, just imagine the concept, not the less important details of quantity and strength etc.
 
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