How to make Fantasy Routes viable popular routes!

[Iamsmart]

I killed you a week or two before you suicided on me, whichis why you suicided on me. (I think you were allied before, i don't remember for sure). How could you check your combat stats? It was last round. Not that it particularly has anything to do with anything.

Strikers don't need health to strip on robo, that point is particularity pointless/stupid, nor does it have anything to do with the argument. My analysis of doing 'approximately' the damage per value is sorc's do ~3-3.3:1 on CW, strikers do ~1.5:1 on CW. Strikers are approximately 2x the cost and do approximately 2x the damage. Pretty simple. Except strikers fire way earlier, and have WAY more survivability. They also don't have the vulnerability of having to have IG's so they can target LET (basically add 30k++ to the cost of sorc's so they actually do damage) and they dont have the disadvantage of sorc's generally firing on sd/sgt/hoolies/hippies/yobs/tractors/combines/other random crap.

Doesn't need a change because it doesn't fit my play style? My play style is the only viable way to play the route in any sort of competitive manner. Maybe not the exact ratios, but I don't see witches/serfs/apprentices/sirens becoming a main unit in any good alliance anytime soon. Dragons/sorc's have hope still, hence my suggestion?

I won't even respond to 'get round up about it' because I don't even know what that means.

 

[willymchilybily]

you jus did

okay icba to argue and having seen the siren ratio that CF has if they are like that since the change perhaps you're right. but until i test it i cant PROVE you're wrong that sirens aren't key for an alternative (and yes highly competative play style), so il leave this as my last TBC post on the matter.

but i think they can do well and is the alternative sa/ass killer to ranger/marines if balanced right, so yeah it definately has a use in the play style i used and adopted mainly versitility, and im sure Septimus would agreew considering the million and millions of tls we bribed with tiny tiny losses(and if you can bribe them, with a 90k unit you should be able to kill them with a 58k unit)

ps. i was solo last round,

 

[Iamsmart]

Attacking at rank 300 is a lot different than attacking at rank 30.

 

[willymchilybily]

Attacking at rank 300 is a lot different than attacking at rank 30.

i have played at those ranks, dont get your e-penis in a knott trying to sound cool. infact when you hit me last round i had just willingly fought off an attack from top rank alliance and i was rank 32 which was at the time highest ranked solo at the time. and when i played sorcs i was actually in a topped rank alliance.

Do not mistake my inactivity for a lack of ability to understand the game and play at both ends of the spectrum, please dont mistake choice to bribe for weakness not to defend oneself. do not be-little me because you think it makes your points stronger.

blowing out some one elses candle does not make yours glow any brighter, even if to the dumb it may appear to. Get over yourself, you arent the all singing all dancing crap of the world, you are the same decaying mass as everything else.
Especially considering im not adversed to A buff, even if i think the route isnt exactly unplayable as it is. and i even mailed u in pm to extend my apologies for any offence i caused you form my brash statement trying to be the bigger man, but you still try to get a rise out of me and drag me to your level, i pitty you. but will enjoy every 1800 seconds of the battle i get to crush you ingame.

good day sir smart.

 

[Iamsmart]

Excuse me? I was just pointing out that siren/puppeting at rank 300 which you probably did where people have retarded route setups/inactive is a lot different than a competitive top 50 player. And if you really want to compare epenis', I was top solo for half the round and finished that way with an underpowered route, how about you?

I haven't belittled you once. I refute your points and you take it personally, and then start insulting me. Sounds slightly hypocritical.

I'll ignore the rest of the post because, once again, you've babbled something I do not understand.

You okay now? Can we get back on topic? Thanks.

 

[willymchilybily]

in the alliance we were attacking top 100 range, and it worked because we could calc ar and hit solos, he wasnt set up POORLY IS MY POINT, my point was the route IS GOOD at stopping TL's and other routes (or was) and if you can use sirens to enable a briber to bribe 40million tls in one tick (hardly a low ranked player considering it was mid round) then you sure as hell use them to 2 tick kill the guy. So its harldy a pointless unit at the higher ranks. and it works so well because like i said IT RESORES NO HEALTH. giving very nice killing ability to what ever fires after as long as it can strip. and low and behold loook at all that armour damage sorcs do wow what a coincidence.

it also use to do the same to rpgs and rangers. so sirens allow those routes your first post claimed hurt you to do well against.

Reasons:

-The sorc route is known as the route that can't kill much but can't be killed by much. I disagree. TL utterly rapes it, RPG rapes it, mass CW rapes it, any sort of RPG/striker/SA/vampire combination rapes it. What exactly can it attack? In my experience, very little. PoM's, puppets, and poorly set up people such as robo's without CW's.

(and im under the impression the change only changed health and armour not the damage capabilities so the unit should be able to still do the same). i dont know about rpgs, but if assassins dont fire you dont get hurt by SA much supposedly takes like 3 or more sa to kill 1 siren. and 1 siren can stop 1.2 assassins. i dont know about rpgs now the route is armour based, but if they dont get enough health damage on you then you stop the snipers firing. so you wont die to that either (need to test) and obviously tl's never use to hurt you with my set up. only problem is ofc vamp is undead so yes still wont stop a vamp hurting you (cos of bonus reduction and early firing) and striker can still hurt you. but gives you far more options.

to summarise: sirens are useful for an alternative play style, and a competaive one, and although buff maybe nice id say if played in this way its hardly essential. but making dragons better as mentioned im all for. infact im for any buffing, just not any changing of the units to a totally different unit (excepts maybe serf/appprentice, change them all you like)

 

[Iamsmart]

So stunning+bribing is a good combination. Stunning revelation (get the pun, ha.). So is RPG/striker+SA.

It is a pointless unit because no decent alliance aiming to attack someone else is going to say "Wtf, you bought dragons? I wanted sirens, not dragons! DAMNIT!" Nor are they going to go on bribing runs.

 

[willymchilybily]

So stunning+bribing is a good combination. Stunning revelation (get the pun, ha.). So is RPG/striker+SA.

It is a pointless unit because no decent alliance aiming to attack someone else is going to say "Wtf, you bought dragons? I wanted sirens, not dragons! DAMNIT!" Nor are they going to go on bribing runs.

every alliance wants you to gain land and fast. i hardly think giving yourself a further 3 routes to hit [sa/tl/rpgpossibly] (or even more if you consider the prot/tl side) is bad, i dont think having something to significantly help your rangers and marines kill sa with much fewer casualties (aka sirens stopping any armour damage) is to be sniffed at

im now confused as to why you moan about survivability of the route and getting pwned by althose and then say what you just said about allied play, in allied play you can use other units to help make your sorcs strong, eg pom terrors.

its too late for this, dragon sorc siren set up is for me and how i play significantly better than sorc/golem/dragon , for you it isnt. The proof though is in the pudding and as you havent tried it, and i havent tried it since the change lets just agree to disagree, and ill stop arguing my point.

ps. nice pun

 

[Iamsmart]

sirens DOES NOT let you hit RPG. Dragons can already hit SA, and I maintain TL rapes sirens still, unless you have a LOT in which case you're stupid anyways and will die to everything else.

 

[timthetyrant]

i see where willy is going, i might try it out before the round is over. but massing sirens will definately make you more vulnerable to armoured routes(i think, but then again mass sorc will scare ppl off especially if i still have my knights), Mass sirens, however, will make me a lot stronger verse those dam sins and TLs(which when i was playing in the top 50 where the only things to have killed me).

And FYI 2m sirens stun around 3.3m TLs this round (unless the hidden bonuses did some funky stuff, but i got that ratio consistently)

 

[willymchilybily]

sirens DOES NOT let you hit RPG. Dragons can already hit SA, and I maintain TL rapes sirens still, unless you have a LOT in which case you're stupid anyways and will die to everything else.

imo i think u can hit rpgs with sirens
i need to do mor havoc test but for example!

[middle] 1,000,000 hostile RPG Trooper attacked, killing 126,191 allied staff.
[middle] 28,744,142 allied Siren sang out, freezing in place 1,000,000 hostile staff.

7.7: 1 or somethign along those lines. i imagein dragons are far worse. still to try sorcs.
but even if you just dragon siren an rpg with minmal sorcs to clear flak i still say thats definately a nice nice target for you to take down with sirens, which would otherwise be very hard. due to snipers that survive the first tick of sorcs killing you. so yes you can take an rpg using sirens and sorc and dragon combo instead of the seemingly more popular golem in place of siren combo.

the two tick siren +sorc+dragon combo though would clearly do some damage.
just thought id let you know my findings.

and yes ofc a dragon can take an sa/ass combo. but i bet you a siren/dragon player can do it with less losses.


[middle] 1,000,000 hostile Secret Agent attacked, killing 337,721 allied staff.
[middle] 19,339,308 allied Siren sang out, freezing in place 1,000,000 hostile staff.

so thats 3:1 not great and if you have a nice balance few/no assassins firing.
once sirens clear. preliminary results show sirens 1:1.4 on sa/ass but still testing

as for tls i give you that one. you would have to hit probably 50-60% to make it worth while or a clean kill. or lower for a no losses kill

[range] 1,000,000 allied Siren sang out, freezing in place 1,382,100 hostile staff.
[range] 8,617,900 hostile Terrorist Leader attacked, killing 1,000,000 allied staff.

not 1:1.4 in this case just under

and on the pbs
range] 400,000 allied Siren sang out, freezing in place 715,350 hostile staff.
[range] 284,650 hostile Petrol Bomber lobbed Molotov Cocktails and killed 284,674 allied staff.

1.787. so pound for pound it would take nearly equal siren troops score for a tl/pb troop score for an absoloutly clean kill. but i think its still a target at the right ranges with the route. and pbs hardly rape your sirens. so a nice target until tls are out for sure. and then u can really only take land fat or low range tls to be truely affective.
anyway just thought id share my preliminary findings. before i show you how its done next round

(Edit: these were pre buff, although i do have some values for them now buffed, i think I've shared enough though you get the idea of where i am going with sirens being useful, buff did help nicely)