Counter PB

[Twigley]

There isn't really a counter to how i and others used to mass PB for a few weeks min apart from Sorcs and there isn't alot of those.

I used to easily take on any player ingame with my PB and usually win and only recall if like 5+ people defended with random crappy lets or i had PB defence that equaled 30~% more than mine.

However, if you are at the top like that, you will have next to no targets, find it very hard to land unless you do mass alliance hits, and always be pranked on for defence ;P

If you are at the bottom with PB's at a late stage you will be wiped by PA and a larger amount of PB.

So yeah they are only really a hassle from about wednesday - 1 week if we are talking about a player who is low ranked.




PB are so cheap that i see loads of low ranked players with them, they are only disadvantages for 1/2 days as they SHOULD be as the other players are teching faster!!!!

I don't see why really we are finding / even creating new solutions to counter people who tech PB faster than others ...
The solution is dedicate your time to bush for the first few days if you want a unit that completely counters it.

If you are uncontactable, in an allaince that slow techs, have no annoying lets to deter PB players then yeah you are gonna have 1/2 days of being killed if a PB hits you when you are offline.

 

[Alcibiades]

I don't see why really we are finding / even creating new solutions to counter people who tech PB faster than others ...
The solution is dedicate your time to bush for the first few days if you want a unit that completely counters it.

If you are uncontactable, in an allaince that slow techs, have no annoying lets to deter PB players then yeah you are gonna have 1/2 days of being killed if a PB hits you when you are offline.

Touche.

 

[Cyrus]

i think people need to go check out the units page, clearly there are ways to counter.

davis you say people dont want to waste of useless troops now but those people spamming PB's are wasting money now, and later on the mass PB's are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, also PB's target all and can be flak'd so that your officers etc fire

the best combo imo is hooligans n loudies

or be active and last tick

 

[Davs]

I gave up reading this thread about half-way through and just scanned the rest.

1) Yes PBs are awesome when they first come out, but as many people have said there are units around that are at least moderately effective against them during this time.
2) Massing PBs early on is handy at the time, but can easily turn into a disadvantage as it can slow down devs etc.
3) Increasing the price of PBs isn't worth doing because after the few days over which they're "overpowered" they become (and this is coming from a player who prefers to use PBs than TLs) a bit crap. So the increase in price would make them too useless later on in the round (imo).
4) They've been this way for such a long time that if they really needed anything doing to them it would have been done by now.

 

[Hobbezak]

I gave up reading this thread about half-way through and just scanned the rest.

1) Yes PBs are awesome when they first come out, but as many people have said there are units around that are at least moderately effective against them during this time.

"moderately effective"? loudies on their own? Like to see that. PA? Try it, you're outnumbered 2 to 1 at least, and PA aren't really effective at killing pb, whereas pb quite frankly are quite effective against armour.

2) Massing PBs early on is handy at the time, but can easily turn into a disadvantage as it can slow down devs etc.

Yeah, because fourth tier units are so much better at killing pb (even more massed than before). Thug developments are cheap as, it won't slow you down *that*much, and definitely not with the major land advantage you can take.

3) Increasing the price of PBs isn't worth doing because after the few days over which they're "overpowered" they become (and this is coming from a player who prefers to use PBs than TLs) a bit crap. So the increase in price would make them too useless later on in the round (imo).

PB's don't become crap... They are without any doubt by far the most useful unit late round that comes from the third tier, except for PA (but are PA really third tier? ). PB excell at killing NLD and you know it, do great AD and cost half of a TL (almost ). They are definitely still brilliant late round, as they're actually of any use then, unlike say heavy weapons or shocks.

4) They've been this way for such a long time that if they really needed anything doing to them it would have been done by now.

I have been thinking they needed a cost increase for a while now. Back in r28(?) when Ranzou was in the rank 1 ally with 40m pb, it was clear to me that massed pb are just too good at that time of the round (and that was after a week I think).


Cost increase is imho the solution for this problem.

 

[Ogluk]

Back in r28(?) when Ranzou was in the rank 1 ally with 40m pb,

oh god dont remind me
i STILL have nightmares of his and cityguy's pbs

 

[Turnip2k]

PB's are good all round indeed - their damage for cost of the unit is pretty incredible, considering how early they come out.

Cost increace is definately not going to be a bad move. They would still be damn deadly if they were 27-30k each, but just not absurdly so.

 

[Rowan]

Maybe a slight price increase.. But really, complaining about PBs being overpowered? Yeah, they rape up for like a day and a half, which is why you should tech just as quick and get them too.

 

[Kingdroid]

Disagree anyways. PB do come out strong, but as soon as other routes start getting their units they get left in the dust.

A.K.A Psychopathic Androids

 

[willymchilybily]

im 100% with every one else. pb is so easy to stop. you have hoolis (first tech) that can armour stip. and they ar good against alot of other units, apprentices,para,gargoyles.

and you have hippy vans that can armour strip.

you then need a health damager that fires b4 the PB. after its been armour stripped
using loudies, and your alliances pb's

those that dont mass hoolis = nub. imo

also your not meant to sacrafice your flak. unless you ahve an army there that can kill the petrol bomber. but you know what defence you have thier your atatcker doesnt. so sending flak defence too really puts them off

also garet mentioned the new rebel unit dunno how much armour damage it does. but it would be ideal! if it can stop them even at a 1:1 ratio. it targtes pure lehal so shud have some kick to it. you obv cant stop a rush. but in the case of a rush defend offliners and get onliners to run.

 

[Davis]

just to kind of say "i told you so" to all of those people who swear by the fact that later in the round the PB route is "useless" and easy to kill, I would like to point out that the rank 1 serial killer is a PB and has been able to zero many people in one tick (spy him) so much for the route being rubbish after the first week or so.

 

[Alcibiades]

just to kind of say "i told you so" to all of those people who swear by the fact that later in the round the PB route is "useless" and easy to kill, I would like to point out that the rank 1 serial killer is a PB and has been able to zero many people in one tick (spy him) so much for the route being rubbish after the first week or so.

having spied his last 450 ticks or so, i see lots of use of TLs and a combination of other routes, not to mention a plethora of his own thug units. i must say i don't see a lot of Mass PBs pwnage; but maybe that's just my eyesight failing me.

So your statement that PBs are overpowered is once again incorrect.

PBs are a great unit if they fire on Pure LET which tends to happen if terrors/TLs clear the way for the PBs. PBs themselves are utter rubbish if used en masse by themselves mid/late round, however this guy is using them in combination, repeat, combination with other units (not only thug) and thus is very effective.

That's like saying SAs are overpowered when combined with strikers or RPG, or that PAs are overpowered when combined with RPG or Strikers.

 

[Hobbezak]

That's like saying SAs are overpowered when combined with strikers or RPG, or that PAs are overpowered when combined with RPG or Strikers.

Bad comparison, with pb being 3rd unit and SA being PU. I'm yet to find a combination where HW seem overpowered tbh.

 

[f0xx]

just to kind of say "i told you so" to all of those people who swear by the fact that later in the round the PB route is "useless" and easy to kill, I would like to point out that the rank 1 serial killer is a PB and has been able to zero many people in one tick (spy him) so much for the route being rubbish after the first week or so.

Davis, are you stupid or something? Who said that the route is rubbish after the first week? No route is rubbish after the first week. Some people said that the unit (PB) is useless after the first week, which is also not true since PBs still have their uses.

So you are basicly saying that PBs are overpowered because some guy with TLs is killing people? Man your logic is *strong*.

 

[Alcibiades]

That's like saying SAs are overpowered when combined with strikers or RPG, or that PAs are overpowered when combined with RPG or Strikers.

Bad comparison, with pb being 3rd unit and SA being PU. I'm yet to find a combination where HW seem overpowered tbh.

I was emphasizing the combination part, not the uses of third tier units. however if you'd prefer a third tier comparison, Hoolies stripping for Ninjas makes them a damn sight more effective. They're not half as useful as PB, but the point remains similar.

 

[Davis]

It's a very temporary advantage to start with mass PBs, because later in the round all the routes that start out slow eat you alive. .

Now maybe i Misread that or maybe I'm soposed to asume that someone who goes PB's only develops PBs and then stops but this is definatly saying that the route itself is "eaten alive" later in the round. because i'm pretty sure other routes dev up later in the round as does PB.

 

[Alcibiades]

It's a very temporary advantage to start with mass PBs, because later in the round all the routes that start out slow eat you alive. .

Now maybe i Misread that or maybe I'm soposed to asume that someone who goes PB's only develops PBs and then stops but this is definatly saying that the route itself is "eaten alive" later in the round. because i'm pretty sure other routes dev up later in the round as does PB.

I meant robo and striker, since an Apache/Marine heavy striker, and a robo will butcher a thug PB in my experience. This may have changed this round with the increase in TLs AD, i'm not playing either Thug or Robo.

And someone who masses PBs and nothing else is liable to lose them to most anything except a POM. Your complaint now revolves around the fact that someone is using TLs to kill people off, not just mass PBs.

Your original complaint was about PBs, not the thug route as a whole, isn't that right?

 

[Davis]

i am simply disproving your post that has now been shown to be a bad counter argument? If me talking about the beginning and future of PBs has changed everything than your original post talking about the future of all the other routes is irrelevant as well is it not?

My point is that:
1. PBs are overpowered in the beginning and anyone in their right mind knows that. I don't care if you say this or that unit massed can "stop them". Then How come it didn't in the begining?
2. The as others have said "the route is rubbish later in the round" I would beg to differ, maybe PBs themselves arne't being used atm but the route as a whole is not "rubbish" by any means if someone can still mass one unit of a route and kill 4/6 routes then it is far from a easily killed route.


and on a side note, Alci, One br where he is hitting with other people does not mean thats how all of them, if you care to take the time to look you would see that most of his attacks are alone, however some ofc are with others.

 

[Alcibiades]

My point is that:
1. PBs are overpowered in the beginning and anyone in their right mind knows that. I don't care if you say this or that unit massed can "stop them". Then How come it didn't in the begining?

PBs are overpowered for about a day, maybe 3 at most. There are units available that can counter them if massed. Most people don't mass them because it delays their teching by quite a bit. In my opinion i'd prefer to suffer through the losses inflicted by PBs, and just keep on teching; not all people feel that way obviously. Please feel free to read up on this thread to know which units.

2. The as others have said "the route is rubbish later in the round" I would beg to differ, maybe PBs themselves arne't being used atm but the route as a whole is not "rubbish" by any means if someone can still mass one unit of a route and kill 4/6 routes then it is far from a easily killed route.

It is not 'rubbish' but it is certainly not overpowered or dominant (or wasn't prior to this round's changes) because of PBs. You can't mass PBs when people are teched and destroy any route save for POMs (unlikely now given POMs HD boost) or possibly extremists. Are you saying that Thug PB as a whole route is overpowered because I thought you were just complaining about PBs themselves, not the entire route. TLs may now be slightly overpowered due to their AD boost, I don't know, as i stated before I haven't played with them since they were changed. Thug PB is a very well designed route with plenty of complimentary units; as every route should be. You can mass TLs and be effective, but you also make yourself vulnerable to a variety of other routes if you do that.

and on a side note, Alci, One br where he is hitting with other people does not mean thats how all of them, if you care to take the time to look you would see that most of his attacks are alone, however some ofc are with others.

I spied about 450 ticks worth of his BRs, not all of them are in combination with other routes, but almost all of them have other Thug units involved, not just pure PBs. Mostly i see TLs, with supporting PBs and hooligans.

Quick recap:

Counter units early round:

Hools/Louds.
Paras/Officers.
Rebels.
PBs.

There are plenty of ways to counter PB when they come out.

putting up the price is what i would see the greatest option [snip] And dont act like they're useless into the round... because they are still very much used maybe not near overpowered and slightly underpowered but maybe not make a unit that owns them but upgrade the cost to make them slightly less massable round start?

I have no objection to a price increase to make massing them slightly more expensive, extend teching time. They're not overpowered mid/late game. Period.

They are awesome for a couple days or so till ninja and PA are out. It's true they can deliver a punch in that time but a round is 76 days long and most of the good rushing routes are let flak in bigger BR's later in the round
[snip] And then even if they attack with 10 mil petrols a 5 mil petrol defence should put them off

To add to DS, a few posts later he says that with Hoolies stripping Ninjas get 1:2 on PBs, that's pretty damn effective.

Just thought i'd reiterate this in case you missed it: (emphasis in the original)

I don't see why really we are finding / even creating new solutions to counter people who tech PB faster than others ...
The solution is dedicate your time to bush for the first few days if you want a unit that completely counters it.

If you are uncontactable, in an allaince that slow techs, have no annoying lets to deter PB players then yeah you are gonna have 1/2 days of being killed if a PB hits you when you are offline.

From Cyrus:

i think people need to go check out the units page, clearly there are ways to counter.

davis you say people dont want to waste of useless troops now but those people spamming PB's are wasting money now, and later on the mass PB's are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, also PB's target all and can be flak'd so that your officers etc fire

the best combo imo is hooligans n loudies

or be active and last tick

While 'chocolate teapot' is exaggerating a bit he's on the right track.

 

[Davs]

SNIP.

In short - there's no real problem to be fixed.