sleep

[Alcibiades]

Once again I get the feeling you're misinterpreting my comments or twisting my words unfairly.

"I wasn't just talking about 'high ranked solos using it' but all manner of players, from lowbie solos/allied players, to the highest ranked solos."

Well you said : "which is currently being used to make solos invulnerable" so that's a bit misleading."

Anyone in sleepmode is invulnerable. That was my point, solos who are active all day rushing/attacking then hit sleepmode at night every night are abusing the system and are making themselves invulnerable. That is all i intended to imply with this statement.

"I do agree that AR has it's flaws and it's not a rock solid system that is just one of the downsides to being Solo"


You're saying AR it's a flawed/bad system but that's exactly what solo's should be getting or it's just my poor english again ?

I'm not saying it's flawed or bad system, i don't play solo enough to speak accurately on the subject, but from what i've heard it appears that some solos seem to think it doesn't give enough protection, or enough even protection for both low ranked, and high ranked solos. That would imply that it's not a perfect system. Players who choose to go solo simply have to deal with AR as it stands atm until it's 'flaws' as solos (yourself included) see it, get it fixed. See my previous post for the reference to the other thread dealing with 'scalable AR.'

"You freely admit to abusing sleepmode this round which comes back to my point in the above post that it can, and is, frequently over used and abused. As i wrote elsewhere I wished to have the minimum timeframe extended to be longer so that it would be harder to simply send a few attacks, log off and be invulnerable until you came back online to rush a few people, then log off again and be untouchable. That's equally unfair to the rest of the players imo."


I meant abusing sleepmode as in over using it. While as i said i'm against sleepmode beeing used as "afk time" or "nn" but just for shorter or longer vacantions the problem that we have here is with AR not providing enough help, so unless you've just hit 90 ar mod or something close to that you need to start doing calcs if you have chances to make it through the night. If you consider your chances are low, then sleepmode is a sensitive option. Again, problem is that chances are low most of the time and that makes sleepmode beeing over used atm. Just suggesting to send them to death by removing that option it's not a good idea imo, first there needs to be a decent protection for solo's aswell and later imho methods to decrease the negative effects of beeing attacked (for example high insurance) and also nerfing of sleepmode to make those that want to attack happier than now and those that are beeing attacked less stressed or demoralised after they get killed.

I put in bold the important parts.

As for the first bold statement, that's the exact kind of abuse of sleepmode i'm talking about and you appear to agree with me, so what are we arguing about?

As for the second bold statement, I don't want to do away with the ability to use sleepmode ever, simply to reduce the frequency with which people use it as an 'overnight' or 'afk time' leeway. Which was something with which you appeared to agree; but i could just be misreading such phrases as, and i quote you here, "I meant abusing sleepmode as in over using it. While as i said i'm against sleepmode beeing used as "afk time" or "nn""

While I must reiterate my point that i do understand that AR appears to drop too quickly for the comfort of you, and other solos in particular, I would suggest that going into sleepmode every night and everytime you're afk is abuse.

if you'd care to read my other posts relating to sleepmode (not just this thread but in several other suggestions as well) i'm amenable to a part solution which involves a not 'invulnerable' kind of sleepmode, but one which might perhaps give increased injuries/insurance but still allow you to be attacked or some variation on that theme. As I am not very well versed in AR, i would like to state that I would support a fixed/improved AR system, but can not really speak in concrete numbers since i'm not an AR expert.

EDIT:

Personally I feel base bounty has played some role in this, I can't recall a time when there were as many rushes for the sole purpose of killing.

Correct. The last time we introduced base bounty, there was an insane amount of rushes. I can't recall if people hit sleepmode a lot but it wouldn't have surprised me

 

[septimus]

I just don't understand how anyone can say sleep mode is being overused if it's being used so people can....sleep....the fact that 8 hours is an option leads me to believe that is what intended by Azzer to be used in that way(Although obviously I don't know if that was his intent or not, just my opinion).

I will say that before this round I had never used sleepmode so far as I can remember, in 3 and a half years playing, just never saw the need. Personally I feel base bounty has played some role in this, I can't recall a time when there were as many rushes for the sole purpose of killing. Perhaps I was never in an ally that ranked high enough before(IE lower ranked allies rarely attack just to kill, they actually try for land, kills are sort of like a nice bonus). It just seems that LET rushes, and attacks just for killing are becoming more and more the norm, because with a base bounty system the need for land is just not there like it once was. Look at Darksider, he has done very well for himself this round on rather low land simply by bounty hunting, which is doable for him because he gets bounty from everyone.

 

[Flip]

I got to agree with Septimus, Sleep mode can be annoying when your trying to kill a specific person, but its serving it's purpose. Sleep mode is a perfectly valid tactic, I don't see why it would be considered anything else. I mean, it is called "sleep" mode, I'd use it just at night before actually using it while going on vacation or something. I say this having only used sleep once this round, and probably like 4 times since I started playing in round 14.

It might be overused as of late, but I see that as a problem with other parts of the game, base bounty, ar, even just the endless bashing. Hopefully the fairness calc will fix atleast some of that. I don't see it as a reason to change sleep mode though.

Besides, a massive change to sleep mode, such as 24 hours minimum or something would mean the end of briber routes, which is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

[aGit]

dno, maybe its just me, but in the olden days it was rarely used, and only when people left somewhere for days. It just feels like people, solos and allied alike rely on it for too much. Imo it is not supposed to be away to avoid incoming.

as a solo, i've found out that keeping your AR up on 80%+ is so ridicilously easy (which is also why i wonder why DS bothers hiting sleep all the time) at the moment, i see absolutely no reason to use sleep mode when going to bed. If you're allied and find your self using sleep to avoid incs, you really need to switch alliance.

should everyone start using sleep as a tactic like it is used by alot at the moment, the game would die and wither away quite fast. which is why imo you should only have 2-5 sleeps per round imo.

 

[pinpower]

It's to prevent the abuse of the sleepmode option, which is currently being used to make solos invulnerable. Something to which i am adamantly opposed. You would prefer to make them invulnerable? Cool.

You only look at it from one side. Majority of the allied players in good allies are called online when they get an inc that would kill them and they have at 19 ppl to do it. THEY ARE CURRENTLY the imbalanced and invulnerable players. Yes they do get killed when they decide to put up a fight, but unlike offline solo's they get to choose if they want to fight or not.
Many of the solo haters dislike when they can't catch an active solo offline because he is active & uses sleep mode and yell OMG IMBA SOLOS, needs nerf !!! , but you forget that the effort he needs to put into his account to get that self protection it's much bigger than an allied player who only needs to have a phone nearby and he is pretty much invulnerable.

QFT
Litterally exactly what i think. Thays why i'd like to see sleepmode developed more making it more usable (developments such as you can be attacked while in sleep mode but gain higher injuries/insurance and get a lower seed income obviously as a price to pay, and you cant do anything as usual..).

Like DS says, currenly its very easy for an allied player to become invincible...im not high ranked at all but there isnt a time EVER when you could catch me offline and kill me unless i decided to let myself die (through lazyness...). You've got to take that factor (a "non-game" factor) into account when weighing up solo v allied play. Which alot of people dont.

If you REALLY want to kill a solo you can almost always do it, whereas alot more allied players these days can become impossible to kill. And, like DS says, if they do fight they pick when and where (so to speak) so they'll pick battles where they can do the most damage back...solo's do not have this choice.


Note: Im not solo, and havnt played solo for well over a year...

 

[Amanala]

What about giving sleep mode a cool down period? Like you can't go into sleep mode within 24 hours of coming out of sleep mode?

Does anyone disagree with that?

 

[DarkSider]

dno, maybe its just me, but in the olden days it was rarely used, and only when people left somewhere for days. It just feels like people, solos and allied alike rely on it for too much. Imo it is not supposed to be away to avoid incoming.

There are a few things different this round :

- Solo's ar drops faster after they get killed
- it's harder to trigger on a solo over previous round psolo due to extra land score
- because of the changes, solo playerbase became smaller and since many like to send a mob and not bother with all the effort to bypass an alliance defence the remaining solo's probably get attacked more than previous round.
- because more of the vulnerable targets are hitting sleep means the rest of them will receive extra attention and we go into a cascade effect with them also needing sleepmode more than usual.
- allies disbanding, lots of shipjumping (more than the average round) so many players feel insecure




"as a solo, i've found out that keeping your AR up on 80%+ is so ridicilously easy (which is also why i wonder why DS bothers hiting sleep all the time) at the moment, i see absolutely no reason to use sleep mode when going to bed."


Defensive abilities of your route are incomparably better than mine Plus the way i'm playing my ar sits around 0 most of the time. Even if the ar system offered a fair protection there's no chance i'd make it through the night with this unit setup




"If you're allied and find your self using sleep to avoid incs, you really need to switch alliance."


But then again some players put loyality above their score and self protection and would rather poke some fun with friends instead playing hardcore. For example, there are some high ranked DW members who know they have good chances to get wiped during their weak time plus they already have the highest scores in the alliance so there's no rush to get even more. So what's the downside for them from using sm ?



"should everyone start using sleep as a tactic like it is used by alot at the moment, the game would die "


Not sure about the game dieing, can't see the future but imo you're right, it has a negative effect on the game.



Amanala: "What about giving sleep mode a cool down period? Like you can't go into sleep mode within 24 hours of coming out of sleep mode? "


What about reducing the need of using sleepmode instead ? SM over usage is caused by something, just nerfing it will probably not fix that problem ?

 

[tobapopalos]

Besides, a massive change to sleep mode, such as 24 hours minimum or something would mean the end of briber routes

Would it ****.

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that. Stop scorequeening and start playing the ****ing game.

 

[Polo]

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that. Stop scorequeening and start playing the ****ing game.

qft.

 

[DarkSider]

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that.

I agree, dying should hapen more frequent but maybe have lower negative impact to reduce the need of extreme activity and playing rest of the round mainly of fear of loosing what you gathered so far.

 

[septimus]

Besides, a massive change to sleep mode, such as 24 hours minimum or something would mean the end of briber routes

Would it ****.

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that. Stop scorequeening and start playing the ****ing game.

I agree, and as they say all's fair in love and war. In this war game that includes sleep mode

 

[Turnip2k]

If you are playing seriously, you invest alot of time into the game, and will try to keep that investment safe (i.e. staying alive). This is why sleep is attractive here

If you are inactive and just messing around, you will die so regularly and this gets annoying - unless you don't mind never having any troops to attack with, or land to earn cash with. This is why sleep is attractive here.

Activity requirement is the source of this problem, and so so many others in this game. If you make it so that inactive players don't need to worry about not having any troops when they log in, sleep mode isnt an issue. If you protect peoples investment in time when they play FTW, then sleep mode wont need to be used as much.

It's all well and good saying 'OMG ITS WAR GAME, STOP WHINGING' - its very much that attitude that is causing problems for advancement.

Yes, it is a war game, and people will get attacked. However, it is still a game - if you don't enjoy it, you don't play. You need to cater for the playerbase, not just the few opinions which are presented here. The playerbase is declining, therefore the views here are very much not part of the general feeling.

These forums are NOT an accurate representations of how the majority of the playerbase feels - this is the problem.

 

[tobapopalos]

Meh. The whole thing makes me very angry. Insurance and injuries are there so you ALWAYS log in to something. That's why they were introduced. I don't think we need further measures to protect incompetent players.

 

[Intense]

What about disabling sleepmode for all members when war has been declared? =P

 

[aGit]

What about disabling sleepmode for all members when war has been declared? =P

that woudnt really remove the genuine needs for sleepmodes (whichever those may be)

 

[Turnip2k]

Insurance works if by 'inactive play' you mean only log in once every couple of days.

If you are inactive by most other standards (log in a couple of times a week), you are zereod 1-2 times in that space, and have been landraped to boot.

Yes you have 30% insurance each time or whatever it is, but 0.3*0.3 = 9% of your units left, with barely any land to speak of.

AR needs fixing, or inactive players need to have a reason to care less.

 

[lillie]

As an total and utter abuser of sleep mode

The main reason I use it so often is because of the landrape after being attacked.

Maybe a cap on how much land you can lose for a very short period if you achieve a high AR .....

 

[Flip]

Besides, a massive change to sleep mode, such as 24 hours minimum or something would mean the end of briber routes

Would it ****.

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that. Stop scorequeening and start playing the ****ing game.

I don't see why your quoting me on that statement. I agree, Scorequeening and top play as it is, is boring. That's why I've led a middle ranked alliance almost every round since I started. I don't care about dying, I don't care about score, or portal. I play with my friends and we play for fun.

My point was that the only way to effectively play puppet is by "abusing" sleep mode.

 

[Matthew]

What about disabling sleepmode for all members when war has been declared? =P

I suggested it, it got ignored.

 

[tobapopalos]

Besides, a massive change to sleep mode, such as 24 hours minimum or something would mean the end of briber routes

Would it ****.

People need to get to grips with the idea that this is a war game, and dying is a part of that. Stop scorequeening and start playing the ****ing game.

I don't see why your quoting me on that statement. I agree, Scorequeening and top play as it is, is boring. That's why I've led a middle ranked alliance almost every round since I started. I don't care about dying, I don't care about score, or portal. I play with my friends and we play for fun.

My point was that the only way to effectively play puppet is by "abusing" sleep mode.

The first 3 words of my post were in response to what you posted. The rest was aimed at the playerbase in general.