Is ship jumping good or bad?

[willymchilybily]

have your say here

willym, what you, and some of the other pro-shipjump-taxers fail to take into account, is that its not all black and white. Most of the time there are proper justifications for leaving an alliance, at least proper to the one doing the leaving and in the end, that is all that is needed. he shouldnt have to worry, what others might be thinking about his endeavours or motives.

Like so many other posts, your post gave me the idea that you're trying to impose your moral values to the rest of us.

to me betrayal is a sin. Worse than death.

..to you.

the problem with that is that i dont see why we should limit the options a player has in any way or form.

look. If you think ship jumping is fine. then thats all well and dandy. But this topic is off the topic of the original thread, which is already assuming thats ship jumping isnt good and its damaging the game. and wants ways to prevent ship jumping happening just cos a player can for mutural gain.
http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showthread.php?p=42578#post42578

[gripe/dig] SO If YOU WANT TO PROTEST SAYING HEY I LOVE SHIP JUMPING I DO IT ALL THE TIME< LOOK AT ME I CAN RIDE MY BIKE WITH NO HANDLE BARS, and what ever else, why dont you make your own thread instead of derailing this one. imho.[/gripe/dig] (wasnt directed at just u agit sorry for only showing ur quotes. just easiest example to find, was at those who arent helping threads and just derailing them)

I think its a bad thing. I know a member of dw left after using the allaince for its resources. then restartded and asked to join when we were weakened, (mass leaving) so they could grow and get accepted into another allaince. Just used as us a steping post to grow, for a second time. infact i know 2 people that did this in DW alone. to me not acceptable. why should you be able to join rape the resources and reap the benefits only to hop ship up the food chain. if those people that grow fast and are good players could stick around in an allaince. the allaince itself would be full of good players. but they just want to get ahead as quickly as possible using and abusing an allaince for personal gain. I dont like it. yes my opinion.

but all of this every last word OFF TOPIC from the suggetsion thread, hence why ive created this thread.

 

[Dark_Angel]

I think it depends on the situation.

You speak of an alliances "resources" - I expect you're talking about defence.

No player is a big enough drain on an alliance's "defence" to merit real discontent for that person then ship-jumping. Players come and go - that is the nature of alliances in this game.

The only instance in which ship jumping is really "bad", IMO, is when the person who leaves takes important intel with them.

In any other scenerio its likely the ship-jumper has simply outgrown the alliance he/she was in. Its not selfish to want to play amongst peers of a similar calibre to yourself - who can provide you with better defence and a more fulfilling/entertaining alliance experience

-

In short - If you've ship-jumped in all likelihood you just don't like the way things are run/how things are in your old alliance - and as a result aren't enjoying playing. If you need to ship-jump to rectify this then why the hell not?

 

[atsanjose]

if youre getting bored of an alliance then join an other.

+ its quite funny when youve entered your fifth alliance and meet someone who was in your second alliance to

 

[aGit]

i dont think its fine, its bad practise for your reputation . however i dont think that anyone should be told how to play or what to do and in the end its down to you to do the "right" thing.

edit; i'm of course talking about a downright betrayal, not just a simple switching of an alliance.

edit 2: also, may i just add that your pol options are grosly misleading and suggestive.

 

[willymchilybily]

I realised after i posted shud have

bad for allaince, and damaging to game

bad, but not damaging

okay, but only in right circumstances

good, no effect on game


but yeah. i rushed it.

 

[BlackWolf]

This discussion is really so hilarious. Theres been so much BS and everyone has opinions. Azzer loves ship jumping... as that is the case and cause its his call no one can do smeg to it no matter how you justify your cause.

Sure shipjumpers are not nice people... time has shown that no matter how much people ship jump they always get to next good alliance... So that doesnt realy work. Is there real reasons to change alliance during round? You join alliance you "make contract" with them. If you want to end your contract well feel free but in everywhere else in life it costs something.

In other hand what if someone really doesnt want to be in some alliance? What prevents them from deleting and making new account, or quitting and paying the price?

You see what I have seen here in these 2 topics which are just mirror images of each others is the mentality of Bushtarion people. It is the mentality that Azzer wanted and now has bitten himself to his rear end. This game is full of ship jumpers who care only of themselves. They dont play for team anymore, they play for them selves and the point someone whos currently winning asks them to join they jump bandwagon immediatedly. They want easy wins with as little of work as possible.

Gone are the days when people really worked for their goal and they won with their alliance or went down with their alliance. This is the mentality what people want to keep by saying shipjumping is not bad, and why some suggestion for preventing it shouldnt be made.

If I join alliance and I hate it there I quit no matter of the cost... But if I would play for my own self and join alliance I dont like and would only like to use them... well ofc I would want it to be free when rank 1 alliance wants me to join them instead.

 

[antisback]

I personally joined TNG at the beginning of the round, it was my comeback round and i wanted to get in an ally and use them to grow (i'm not ashamed of it).

TNG got someone to organise them and with my help (it was a team effort) they got to 10th - but when the opportunity came to join some old friends in an ally I took it.

I don't think i backstabbed anyone in doing that sure i used them to help me grow but they gained something positive from it. I didn't leak any info when i joined EF so as far as i'm concerned that type of shipjumping is fine.


ReRR type ship jumping i thought was very cheap but having said that all is fair in love and war and it is a war game

 

[BlackWolf]

You can make all excuses you want for yourself but I am sure all of us know that one alliance was let down by you and one alliance gained by kicking someone who wasnt as good as you

 

[CFalcon]

This poll is unfair from the start, not just the options, but the very name "ship jumping" has bad connotations. If you'd called the poll "freedom of choice" or "right to move around" you'd see different results.

Ultimately everyone in this game is trying to have as much fun as they can. I defy anyone to say otherwise. Some people get their fun from hanging around with friends, some people get their fun from trying for the top, some people get their fun from dirty tactics, some people like to stay as clean as possible. But everyone is just trying to have fun.

So what right do you have, does the game have, to deny me the right to move on from an alliance when I feel I'm not really having fun with them, and that I could be having a lot more fun somewhere else?

People have this idea that somehow people who leave alliances are all SQs or backstabbers, or in some way evil. Nobody in this game sets out with the lone goal of causing others misery. Everyone is trying to have their fun in whatever form, but no we'd all rather assume that anyone with alterior ways of having fun is in some way out to spite you.

 

[tobapopalos]

Nobody in this game sets out with the lone goal of causing others misery.

I respectfully disagree

 

[Matthew]

Nobody in this game sets out with the lone goal of causing others misery.

I respectfully disagree

lol then what am I doing here?

On topic ship jumping allows you to experience a lot of different dynamics and provides a lot of varied experiences for players. So i see nothing wrong ittt

 

[Melnibone]

Basically this is a medium of entertainment and i think if you'll have more fun somewhere else why on earth should there be a punishment for it (more than already applies)

I cant remember a single round where the alliance 20 has stayed the same the entire round for ANY alliance, people play for their own motivation and have their own morals the point is and should be 'honesty' drama is only caused by movement when people aren't completely honest to their alliance mates about their intention.



And remember folks the drama that sometimes ensues from 'bad ship jumping' (as its defined) can sometimes change the entire face of the round ReRR anyone?

As things go morally right, probably not but made it fun........

 

[Davs]

I won't vote because I don't really agree with any of the voting options.
Instead I'll just say that it depends on the circumstances of the ship-jump. I've left alliances just because aspects of them pissed me off and joined better alliances, this is "shipjumping" but I think many players might agree it's acceptable.
Imo leaving an alliance just because you're getting pressure from another alliance due to politics isn't really acceptable as you're letting the team down.

Two examples of something that can be labelled as the same thing but are often viewed as completely different.

Also I feel the need to comment on this:
"to me betrayal is a sin. Worse than death." Death is not a sin, otherwise everyone who has ever lived will be damned for eternity (subject to your beliefs)
The word you're looking for is "murder" or for an extra kick "genocide"
<3

 

[Podunk]

This poll is retarded.

Yes it's a bad thing to screw over all of the people that have been sending defense/helping you land/chatting with for the past 60 days. It's just plain selfish.

The alliances are based on the in-game community, and if people think its OK just to ruin their impression that they made on 19 other people then they'll soon find out that maybe that wasn't such a good idea when they can't find any alliance that wants them in the coming rounds.

 

[Alcibiades]

This poll is retarded as many others have said.

on the note of shipjumping there are so many different circumstances in which someone can shipjump or be labeled a shipjumper that you simply cannot make a cursory sweeping judgment of the whole event. period.

 

[Hobbezak]

Gone are the days when people really worked for their goal and they won with their alliance or went down with their alliance. This is the mentality what people want to keep by saying shipjumping is not bad, and why some suggestion for preventing it shouldnt be made.

Some people actually leave for other reasons than pure score or rank. I have left an alliance in r23 because of a continuing argument with another member, I've seen other people leave because they don't find what they're looking for in an ally.
People who shipjump almost immediately get the label of scorequeens who leave because they want to preserve their rank, even when they leave to a lower ranked alliance (like me in both this round, and r23).
Just look at Polo this round. He leaves RRR to war with them for fun, and at that time gets labelled a scorequeen by some. ReRR fall, proving that he clearly didn't do this for rank. He then after some time joins STN, I assume with the objective of being involved in the last few wars of the round, and again gets labelled scorequeen...

So, shipjumping can be a bad thing (thinking of spies most prominently here), but forcing people who are getting frustrated in an ally to stay around, will only result in them getting even more frustrated, ruining the atmosphere and killing the fun for everyone else (=> Kick?).


edit: From another topic:

While I'm with an alliance I will be 100% loyal and help however I can, but if I feel an alliance is going in a different direction to me then I have no problem leaving them. I will try and do it on good terms, and if it can't be done on good terms then that's even more reason to leave.

People have got this strange idea that somehow leaving an alliance is on the same level as spying, that it constitutes backstabbing. W.T.F. It's a parting of ways, nothing more.

 

[Garrett]

People have got this strange idea that somehow leaving an alliance is on the same level as spying, that it constitutes backstabbing. W.T.F. It's a parting of ways, nothing more.

Indeed it is. *Usually*

However, when people leave with the implied and expressed intent of immediately hitting the alliance they left, I view that as being different.

When I've received ally mails of alliance lists noting who is online and who isn't from people who are leaving that alliance they are not happy with, I also view that as being different.

To try and pigeonhole SJ'ing into a black and white issue is an exercise in futility. There are many reasons for why people do what they do.

To me if it's done on good terms, then it's all good, but when it goes down badly I take it personally as I don't see why it can't be done amicably most of the time.

/me hops on bad poll bandwagon

 

[Iamsmart]

This poll is retarded as many others have said.

on the note of shipjumping there are so many different circumstances in which someone can shipjump or be labeled a shipjumper that you simply cannot make a cursory sweeping judgment of the whole event. period.

qft