This argument is ridiculous.
Regardless of whether or not you like our actions, or whether or not you think they were honourable, there cannot be any discussion or debate upon the matter that without the Rebellion, there would have been no functional resistance.
You guys (resistance) had already given up by the time the RRR splinter group left. Which was another reason we waited so long, wanted to make sure the resistance was a non-entity before pulling off our rebellion so they wouldn't interfere.
There simply is no argument that without the rebellion, the resistance could or would have gone anywhere. Yes there is (always) a minute chance that the resistance could have been successful but i find it extremely unlikely.
Even after we splintered off the resistance took ages to try to kill us. There was some murky behaviour on the part of several resistance members which led to us being fed considerable amounts of intelligence which definitely helped support us in our continued rank as number 1. I don't mean to take away from the organizational aspects of the resistance, for the first time in yonks you managed to stick together for a decently long time, and long enough to finally topple us from our increasingly precarious perch.
While i wouldn't say that the continued resistance is credited to ReRR, there is no doubt in my mind that without our little rebellion that the round would have ended much the same as many others, with RaRR in the lead by a considerable margin, and the rest of the allies in the typical ranks 3-5 stalemate.
Now whatever you have against our morals, our decency, honour, loyalty and all that crap, you simply cannot mount a persuasive argument as to the importance of our behaviour in re-opening the round and in being the catalyst for an ultimately successful resistance.
As for 'getting ahead' by doing what we did; we've posted elsewhere numerous times that it's complete bullshit. We would have been more than happy to retain rank 1 right til the end, and to keep our position, but we had no illusions as to the likelihood of keeping it. Chances which diminished the longer the resistance managed to stick together without imploding. What Sir_Drumalot meant to convey is any tactics in a wargame are to be used without conscience i believe. I support him in this and while i'm not generally a fan of using spies if intelligence is passed into my hands then i'm certainly going to use it, as would 99% of the other players here. Anyone who says otherwise is just a liar, plain and simple; not to mention a hypocrite.
As for the backstabbing and loyalty, betrayal and all that ****ing bullshit... there is another thread for that, it doesn't deserve to be dragged out again in here. Especially since the battle lines for that discussion have been drawn ages ago, and people aren't going to be budged from their opinions, whatever they may be. personally i think you're all wildly blowing the honour/loyalty situation out of the water but that is, after all, my considered opinion.
/rant.
EDIT: As for my personal feelings on the matter of the resistance, bring on the sleep, the rest and the lowbie targets!
I think we'll take the credit for our accomplishments. You took down a different alliance - We then proceeded to take you down. GG.
"In war comes under handed tactics, anything required in house to get ahead."
Oh - So now you've done it to get ahead? Most of your alliance has been fighting that statement since the incident occurred.
Very interesting.
I will not honour nor congratulate a group of players who plan before it ticks to betray there alliance mates, regardless of intent or result.
What you have done shows a lack of integrity, the way in which you carried out your plan smacks of dishonesty. I only hope that the stigma follows like the powerblocking follows Twigley and JJ.
Also i resent the fact that your claims take from those players who planned the resistance and actioned the resistance. The resistance did not start with you, as i see no difference between the RRRs - it started with JJ, Twigley, DA, Garrett, Enrico and whole host of other players. And this Old Fart refuses to allow treacherous scum take that from them.
Cheerio
An Old Fart.
We dont need nor do we want your congratulations. no Bushtarion Veteran would look at things this way, so im guessing you're one of the new, or youve just got your head up your ass. We know what we did and we are damn proud of it. And without us (the real resistance) the 4 alliances below RRR would never had a chance. So maybe instead of talking down our achievements, you should look at your own.
This is a game of war, stop treating it like we should all be truthful and get along in la di da fairy land.. Like you're so high and morally pure that you'd never lie to anyone on Bush. Its bullshit and you know it.
Id like to give special thanks to Martin and Polo, ive had a great round with all of ReRR and wouldnt have had it go any other way with any other alliance. Its been awesome fun and ill always have time for any of you guys.
Lastly to everyone that wants to flame ReRR for whatever reason. We brought back life into a round, and the guys that left RRR made a decision that im certain 99% of you would be too greedy to make. They are worthy of your respect, but if you're too self involved to give out the respect they deserve at least keep your mouth shut.
Its been a pleasure guys.
Alci - Frankly it's odd that you refer to taking down you're own alliance as part of the resistance. It's all very confusing.
I've only skim-read this thead so forgive me if I've missed anything important in the overwhelming about of dick-waving.
Can I just say thank you to the following people:
Iamsmart
Marvin
JJ
And the following alliances:
Enmity
S2N
Ail
OF (A few of their guys played a pivotal role in goings on last night)
-
Iamsmart has played quite simply outstandingly - this guy is incredibly on the ball, and one of the most dedicated players I've had the pleasure of seeing work'. He's about as enthusiastic as they come and organised extremely well under pressure. I've similar sentiments for Marv/JJ.
I know I'm in Enmity but I do think these guys deserve a pat on the back. They were, as far as I'm concerned, the flag-ship Resistance alliance and consistently had 50%+ of the troops involved in hits.
That said, they could not have done it alone - S2N also pulled out the stops, as did Ail, to help last night happen.
I don't feel the Resistance's win last night to be tainted by the fact that RRR reorganised. At the end of the day even after rebelling and reforming as ReRRR, they grabbed some of the best players in the top 50 to replace those they'd lost. These guys were no n00bs, they were active and experienced.
Quite often game mechanics, of lack thereof, are blamed for the epic failure of the majority of resistance efforts (most of the time by me) - When the would-be winning alliance is brought down like last night, it completely invalidates that excuse and once again reinforces the fact that all you really need is team spirit, a couple of steadfast planners and people willing to send.
Most importantly - Last night was good fun. And that is, of course, what this game should be all about.
I don't feel the Resistance's win last night to be tainted by the fact that RRR reorganised. At the end of the day even after rebelling and reforming as ReRRR, they grabbed some of the best players in the top 50 to replace those they'd lost. These guys were no n00bs, they were active and experienced.
I don't feel the Resistance's win last night to be tainted by the fact that RRR reorganised.
One thing I will admit though, the so called resistance had an incredible amount of persisntance and I know how hard it is to keep that momentum going. So, thumbs up for having persistance, because that is the only thing that brought us down.
Secondly, the "oh so mighty attack which killed" us, was nothing more than a bash on 1 target There was not even a fake attack. I fail to see what is so skilled about giving an ID and LT to 4 different alliances? Hell the waves which happened after that bash were a hundred times more skilled even if they were not organised.
The resistance won simply because Polo said, "Defend". We knew we were going to die and we knew that this would bring us down. We were so annoyed at the resistance comming every night and then recalling after even the smallest sign of us wanting to fight that we simply didn't care if we were going to die. ]
I don't feel the Resistance's win last night to be tainted by the fact that RRR reorganised. At the end of the day even after rebelling and reforming as ReRRR, they grabbed some of the best players in the top 50 to replace those they'd lost. These guys were no n00bs, they were active and experienced.
Yes, we were/are a good group, but active we are not, most of us don't even have contact numbers up.