Bribe/Clone/Convert Cap

[Asmodeous]

We already have a land cap for attacking at the lower end of the range so I propose a cap on bribing/cloning/converting as well for attacking at the lower end of the attack range.

I've seen several times this round, including once on me, where a Vamp attacked at +2 eta and literally slaughtered everything the defender had and got huge conversion rates for lesser vamps.

Thoughts?

 

[Ogluk]

i like it!!!

would stop people farming at +2 for bribes etc

although the bribing folk will complain it'll just be making their work even more difficult

 

[Matt]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

as bribing is just another form of attacking in the game, if you limit what damage a briber can do to +1 and +2 you giving people who kill/distact/disable and unfair advantage when attacking at +1 and +2.

Would you then also not have to make people who adren rush at -1 and -2 more effective??

 

[Ahead]

I disagree.. it's nigh on impossible to bribe lawfully, especially at a reasonably high rank. However I'd like to suggest that something does need to be done, particularly with regards to the no insurance from bribed units - I do think that is unfair.

I realise giving insurance could be open to abuse from multi's, but I can't think of any other alternatives. I don't think capping bribes and converts is the correct way to approach it though.

 

[f0xx]

I do not agree.

1. Vamps are an overall shitty unit.
2. Vamps do not have a huge convesion rate.
3. The only thing that makes the Vamp route worth playing are the Vamps. The only reason that makes Vamps worth buying is that they convert.

I have attacked DiscWord few times and I think you might be refering to me. Your defence is a bit lacking to put it soft and I don't think it is fair to blame a unit for that.

 

[Ahead]

I do not agree.

1. Vamps are an overall shitty unit.
2. Vamps do not have a huge convesion rate.
3. The only thing that makes the Vamp route worth playing are the Vamps. The only reason that makes Vamps worth buying is that they convert.

I have attacked DiscWord few times and I think you might be refering to me. Your defence is a bit lacking to put it soft and I don't think it is fair to blame a unit for that.

Agreed. Frankly, vamps get a really poor conversion ratio in terms of damage done. And remember that lesser vamps die extremely easily, they are probably weaker than attack dogs even.

 

[Twigley]

although the bribing folk will complain it'll just be making their work even more difficult

^^
Which is why i disagree.

 

[rooney]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

this is different, as killing gives no real benifits (i know about bounty, but bounty at 30% is not worth it in any way) whereas converting/bribing has huge rewards. however that is not to say that i agree with the suggestion entirely, i would rather see fantasy removed tbh. but a bribe cap is something i would like to see, although not a major one. maybe just up to 20% less bribes or something

 

[Garrett]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

considering we have a PUPPET route, whose sole purpose is to bribe... Matt wins.

or if you are going to limit bribing with caps, make the puppet route have the Trex as an optional P-Unit in lieu of the Puppet.

 

[Hobbezak]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

considering we have a PUPPET route, whose sole purpose is to bribe... Matt wins.

or if you are going to limit bribing with caps, make the puppet route have the Trex as an optional P-Unit in lieu of the Puppet.

I wonder if the current system would actually allow a bribe cap, because that would mean bribers would have to be acting as "converters", as they would have to keep their killing power, and convert a limited amount of units into the same units on their side.

I agree with this suggestions, on the condition that puppet masters and hypnos get an increase in power (or the puppet master route is reviewed to make it more powerful).
I think this condition is essential, as imho the puppet route atm have to resort to hitting people with bad set-ups, at 30%, because otherwise it's impossible to do some decent bribing (not speaking from experience, so might be wrong here). So this bribe-cap could be a good moment to review the route, and improve it.

 

[Matt]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

this is different, as killing gives no real benifits (i know about bounty, but bounty at 30% is not worth it in any way) whereas converting/bribing has huge rewards. however that is not to say that i agree with the suggestion entirely, i would rather see fantasy removed tbh. but a bribe cap is something i would like to see, although not a major one. maybe just up to 20% less bribes or something

How does killing give no real benefits?

you can attack a guy at 30% your score with 50mill more men than he has rape him in one tick were he doesnt get to fire and has no chance of inflict any real damage what so ever.

I always take losses when im bribing. simply because Puppets are one of the last units to fire.

So i dont see how bribers have the upper hand on hitting people 30% there score compared to the people who just purely Kill.

Grant if we briber staff we do get an increase in score because we have accuired more men. but in the same process we also takes loses aswell. bribers have to hit routes that have bad ratios to be effective. at the moment im hitting people at 50% my score which is hard in its own right especially since im up into the top 100, you find it harder n harder to bribe the further you go up the rankings!

 

[Garrett]

hobbes has some good points and really agree about a review of the puppet route...

but matt. matt... you are full of win in this thread.

 

[DaN]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

this is different, as killing gives no real benifits (i know about bounty, but bounty at 30% is not worth it in any way) whereas converting/bribing has huge rewards. however that is not to say that i agree with the suggestion entirely, i would rather see fantasy removed tbh. but a bribe cap is something i would like to see, although not a major one. maybe just up to 20% less bribes or something

How does killing give no real benefits?

you can attack a guy at 30% your score with 50mill more men than he has rape him in one tick were he doesnt get to fire and has no chance of inflict any real damage what so ever.

I always take losses when im bribing. simply because Puppets are one of the last units to fire.

So i dont see how bribers have the upper hand on hitting people 30% there score compared to the people who just purely Kill.

Grant if we briber staff we do get an increase in score because we have accuired more men. but in the same process we also takes loses aswell. bribers have to hit routes that have bad ratios to be effective. at the moment im hitting people at 50% my score which is hard in its own right especially since im up into the top 100, you find it harder n harder to bribe the further you go up the rankings!

just because the guy is 30% doesnt mean anything, remember score isnt directly related to firepower, but to total unit score, land, seeds/plants/funds stored.

as we have seen lately there are some people 30% of others score, that have nearly as many, or even more lethals as the "bigger" guy since they purely concentrate on one unit type, disregarding flak etc.

 

[Matt]

and what people are these? are they even in the top 500 ranks?? i mean because we all know for what your saying to be true its either low ranks or they would have to have a considerable amount of flak, which in that case is the way they choose to play there game?

 

[f0xx]

just because the guy is 30% doesnt mean anything

Nah, it actually means that the guy you are attacking is more than 3 times smaller than you. If you want your score to be made mostly of land/seeds that is your personal decision.

 

[DaN]

alliances rank 4, 5, 6 people

 

[DaN]

just because the guy is 30% doesnt mean anything

Nah, it actually means that the guy you are attacking is more than 3 times smaller than you. If you want your score to be made mostly of land/seeds that is your personal decision.

yeah, thats if i had total control and could make my land count nothing for score, i dont want my score to be made mostly of land/seeds, but its either that or ill grow out of range.
anyway as i said before, smaller in score doesnt mean weaker in firepower, in some cases yes, other no thats the point.

im the noob here, do i need to explain this stuff to u f0xx ?
well any other doubt u can pm me on irc, faster reply

 

[timtadams]

No cap

I dont think there is a problem with puppets being over powered. Its hard to do well as a briber as it is.

Cap bribers and no one will buy hypnos, OR puppets (that means one useless route) OR recruitment officers, and maybe even vamps.
There you go, just make the P-units obselete.

Nanobots are already crap, conversion rates for vamps are perfect, they provide good numbers of flak. Zombies dont convert too much....

I dont see a problem anywhere with bribers. You want to cap bribers? why dont you just make them weaker?

 

[f0xx]

just because the guy is 30% doesnt mean anything

Nah, it actually means that the guy you are attacking is more than 3 times smaller than you. If you want your score to be made mostly of land/seeds that is your personal decision.

yeah, thats if i had total control and could make my land count nothing for score, i dont want my score to be made mostly of land/seeds, but its either that or ill grow out of range.
anyway as i said before, smaller in score doesnt mean weaker in firepower, in some cases yes, other no thats the point.

im the noob here, do i need to explain this stuff to u f0xx ?
well any other doubt u can pm me on irc, faster reply

If you want to have firepower then you can't be land fat. If you want to be land fat, then you cannot have firepower. You can't have all.

PS. I do not need explanations, I was trying to hint you towards the right direction instead of just slapping you in the face with the answer like I did now.

PPS. I prefer mailing you ingame since I love your ingame name more than your forum/IRC name

 

[rooney]

i dont agree with this idea,

as then wouldnt you have to also then cap the killing/distracting/disbaling etc...

this is different, as killing gives no real benifits (i know about bounty, but bounty at 30% is not worth it in any way) whereas converting/bribing has huge rewards. however that is not to say that i agree with the suggestion entirely, i would rather see fantasy removed tbh. but a bribe cap is something i would like to see, although not a major one. maybe just up to 20% less bribes or something

you can attack a guy at 30% your score with 50mill more men than he has rape him in one tick were he doesnt get to fire and has no chance of inflict any real damage what so ever.

yes you can attack at 30% and take no losses, but what do you actually gain from that? when you bribe you lose men and then gain some others. if your good you gain more than you lose. if you just kill you gain nothing!