Seed/plant-thief + stealth

[Hobbezak]

A few fairly short suggestions (which I suggested in another thread where they might not belong ):
1. Seed thieves and plant thieves should be capped like land thieves (i.e. unlawful attacks gain less seeds). I don't see why it is different.
I can understand why it's hard/impossible to bribe less according to lawfulness (e.g. hypnos would then fire less, so it would affect the stats, which might not be what we want anyways).

2. Treat stealth like normal troops: If you send pure stealth which only shows at eta 1, then give them bounty as if they were sent eta 1. If you want full bounty, send 1 gardener, making the mob visible according to the eta of the lets.
This does not mean you can't use stealth tactics (you can send 5 mobs of 1 gardener, it would still be guessing which one is real because the real stealth will only show on eta 1(/2)).
The advantage would be to allow the alliance to see that what eta the mob is actually on. It is not hard to send/recall just before tick/resend just after to make it impossible for the defenders to guess the eta. So for this reason it should be treated like a rush.

3. Unlawful attacks (i.e. under 65%?, maybe take into account the alliance score etc?) give no bounty, instead of a limited amount. This to make sure people don't get bounty for just bashing at 30%. As f0xx said in Moorer's thread: It's still profitable to bash some people at the low end of your range for bounty. Maybe balance this by increasing the bounty for attacks on people > 100%?

 

[No-Dachi]

I don't agree with 1), as I don't really see a reason for capping them. 2) and 3) however I totally agree on, unless in a war with the target alliance.

 

[pinpower]

I dont actually agree with 2. I think its often alot easier than people think to defend against stealth (and conversely harder to stealth rush a good alliance) so it should be rewarded.

A stealth mob of eta 4/5 (and having to gamble which it is) is alot easier to defend against than an eta 1 rush.

 

[No-Dachi]

So you get 1 real and 3 fakes. That means the ally will have to split their lets to 4 targets, and unless you are a complete retard you wont pick the most obvious, hence they can't just mass def the RPG. Even if they defend they are opening themselves up for other attacks in a much larger scale than a conventional attack.

Or another scenario: you get two friends to send along. That's 12 unknown mobs. How do you defend that? You don't! You wait for it to show up at eta 1 and then you call the target online. The only time you defend a stealth rush if is the target can't be contacted, or if you're bored and it's only 1 mob.

A good stealth rush is impossible to defend, and you want to reward it on the reasoning that it's easier to defend against?

Edit: Not to mention stealth rolling - there's no way to know anything about a well done stealth attack.

 

[Alcibiades]

I can't agree to make stealth rushes easier. I've used them as a solo to *great* effect against alliances, and it can be an absolute ******* to contend against; especially if you have an SO who has nothing better to do but rock rolling stealth mobs on his targets. that can be a real ******* as no-dachi has illuminated for us.

I see no reason to cap see thieves. if someone can get through with thieves, they deserve as many seeds as they can carry off. If anything i'd boost (again) seed thieves stealing ability to make it a real evil weapon in any player's arsenal.

As for point #3, I'll support it. Whatever seems most fair...

 

[Elderveld]

1: NO 2: NO 3: NO!

Seriously, Why does everyone wants to punish the better playing people in this game!:S

1) Seed thieves are good as they are atm, they could even be granted a little boost, as the profit of the seed thieves is only granted after a fwew succesfull attacks whitout dying.
And, seriously.... Plant thieves are already some sort of a useless unit atm, who stocks up on plants anyway?!?

2) Stealth units are not made stealth for nothing... thats the reason people pick them, cause they are STEALTH.

3) ehm, i dont know if u ever killed someone at around 30-40%, the bounty u get is terrible! its is like 4-5%. I would love to see Foxx's proof of it still being profitable, cause the chance to get that is around even to win the lottery... Finding someone whit 100m zombies and 1m vamps wich u get to kill while he is not getting defence from his alliance ect ect....

the bounty hunting should be boosted, as i get more insurance than i get bounty (and i dont mean that i suicided, for all of u who was already thinking of reply'n whit it.)

 

[f0xx]

3) ehm, i dont know if u ever killed someone at around 30-40%, the bounty u get is terrible! its is like 4-5%. I would love to see Foxx's proof of it still being profitable, cause the chance to get that is around even to win the lottery... Finding someone whit 100m zombies and 1m vamps wich u get to kill while he is not getting defence from his alliance ect ect....

Elder, I always have prooves to back up my words.

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Died: 1,119,503 [£13,080,536,800] friendlies dead. 29,772,267 [£824,360,682,400] enemies dead.
Converted: 3,624,166 [£57,986,656,000] enemies converted.

You gained 369,117 effectiveness.
You earned £77,081,451,920 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £4,125,540,300 insurance.

============

Died: 5,562,823 [£117,119,421,000] friendlies dead. 31,525,593 [£1,014,359,036,400] enemies dead.
Converted: 2,984,824 [£47,757,184,000] enemies converted.

You gained 435,642 effectiveness.
You earned £118,865,514,083 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £38,058,918,800 insurance.

=============

Distracted: 1,213,327 [£2,704,750,800] friendlies distracted.
Died: 186,439 [£4,382,003,600] friendlies dead. 8,577,114 [£393,875,565,000] enemies dead.
Converted: 1,317,714 [£21,083,424,000] enemies converted.

You stole 233 land. [8] tree. [216] bush. [5] flower. [4] grass. [0] uncultivated.
You gained 176,870 effectiveness.
You earned £46,291,521,507 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £1,441,287,400 insurance.
Your max land grab was reduced in this battle.

==============

Died: 8,341,011 [£204,508,466,000] friendlies dead. 114,054,362 [£887,284,838,800] enemies dead.
Converted: 5,136,455 [£82,183,280,000] enemies converted.

You gained 385,476 effectiveness.
You earned £51,184,383,638 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £71,577,963,100 insurance.

==============

Disabled: 3,126,624 [£193,850,676,000] friendlies disabled.
Died: 5,272,340 [£326,885,060,000] friendlies dead. 45,492,523 [£910,067,552,400] enemies dead.
Converted: 3,975,242 [£63,603,872,000] enemies converted.

You gained 356,915 effectiveness.
You earned £81,940,024,344 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £114,409,771,000 insurance.

===============

Distracted: 57 [£3,420,000] friendlies distracted.
Disabled: 3,202,696 [£198,567,150,000] friendlies disabled.
Died: 283,302 [£17,564,724,000] friendlies dead. 7,416,974 [£301,058,567,500] enemies dead.
Converted: 1,265,063 [£20,241,008,000] enemies converted.

You gained 476,147 effectiveness.
You earned £26,431,715,838 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £6,147,653,400 insurance.

===============

Died: 6,031,133 [£33,263,643,400] friendlies dead. 35,910,854 [£856,571,317,200] enemies dead.
Converted: 4,572,666 [£73,162,656,000] enemies converted.

You gained 383,281 effectiveness.
You earned £75,888,569,678 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £7,255,795,400 insurance.

===============

Died: 5,184,590 [£90,010,542,800] friendlies dead. 25,466,917 [£426,096,235,000] enemies dead.
Converted: 1,284,966 [£20,559,456,000] enemies converted.

You gained 175,070 effectiveness.
You earned £29,807,483,389 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £28,523,740,700 insurance.

===============

Distracted: 3,432 [£93,000,000] friendlies distracted.
Died: 3,401,906 [£89,820,320,000] friendlies dead. 39,862,352 [£556,127,640,000] enemies dead.
Converted: 2,557,306 [£40,916,896,000] enemies converted.

You gained 239,583 effectiveness.
You earned £32,663,265,894 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £31,437,112,000 insurance.

===============

Distracted: 5,802,921 [£359,780,964,000] friendlies distracted.
Died: 29,590,697 [£416,002,623,400] enemies dead.
Converted: 2,516,491 [£40,263,856,000] enemies converted.

You gained 638,216 effectiveness.
You earned £53,167,485,295 bounty.

===============

Died: 16,201,474 [£235,611,766,600] enemies dead.
Converted: 1,342,523 [£21,480,368,000] enemies converted.

You gained 107,537 effectiveness.
You earned £17,638,240,691 bounty.

==============

All at 40%.
I guess I won the lottery a lot of times.

the bounty hunting should be boosted, as i get more insurance than i get bounty.

Get some skill then.

 

[rooney]

So you get 1 real and 3 fakes. That means the ally will have to split their lets to 4 targets, and unless you are a complete retard you wont pick the most obvious, hence they can't just mass def the RPG. Even if they defend they are opening themselves up for other attacks in a much larger scale than a conventional attack.

Or another scenario: you get two friends to send along. That's 12 unknown mobs. How do you defend that? You don't! You wait for it to show up at eta 1 and then you call the target online. The only time you defend a stealth rush if is the target can't be contacted, or if you're bored and it's only 1 mob.

A good stealth rush is impossible to defend, and you want to reward it on the reasoning that it's easier to defend against?

Edit: Not to mention stealth rolling - there's no way to know anything about a well done stealth attack.

that is the point imo. a badly done stealth rush is easy to defend against, so it rewards people putting some thought into how they attack. i disagree with it imo, but then i mostly play SA so i mayb be slightly biased

 

[Elderveld]

the bounty hunting should be boosted, as i get more insurance than i get bounty.

Get some skill then.[/QUOTE]

Ye i knew i could expected this aswell. Dont mind me taking not taking it serious.

And to reply to the bounty, i was meaning to the 30-40% range (so under 40% (+1/2's)).

killing off 1t troops and getting 30 bil bounty or so.

Wat i mean is, most of those battles were like 'free kills' if u get wat i mean, not bounty hunting.

 

[Garrett]

the bounty hunting should be boosted, as i get more insurance than i get bounty.

well what route are you? what routes do you attack? what's your set up? what's their set up?

Your post can't be taken seriously because it has no substance. Are you a rebel prot attacking ninjas and assassins? If you are attacking at 30-40% then you definitely are going to win. Probably still win at 70%... but it's not going to be a pretty win.

what are YOUR examples for your bounty failures? Not amounts, but details. Perhaps there is something about your route you don't understand. I couldn't tell you for sure if you lack knowledge because of your lack of details.

Also, you want bounty boosted so you can make mad cash on the 40% range? Really this is your wish? You want bounty boosted so you can make more money with no effort to make up for your lack of attack planning?

I just need clarification on exactly where you are going with this.

 

[Hobbezak]

I see no reason to cap see thieves. if someone can get through with thieves, they deserve as many seeds as they can carry off. If anything i'd boost (again) seed thieves stealing ability to make it a real evil weapon in any player's arsenal.

The same can be said about geo's. If you can get through, you deserve as much land as you can carry off?
It was implemented to encourage people to attack at 60+%, so now you get the bashing for seeds at 40%.
To be frank I've always been against seed thieves, because it allows players to come back from holiday with absolutely nothing: no land, no troops and no seeds. But if they need to be here, I think they should be treated the exact same way as geo's.

So you get 1 real and 3 fakes. That means the ally will have to split their lets to 4 targets, and unless you are a complete retard you wont pick the most obvious, hence they can't just mass def the RPG. Even if they defend they are opening themselves up for other attacks in a much larger scale than a conventional attack.

Or another scenario: you get two friends to send along. That's 12 unknown mobs. How do you defend that? You don't! You wait for it to show up at eta 1 and then you call the target online. The only time you defend a stealth rush if is the target can't be contacted, or if you're bored and it's only 1 mob.

A good stealth rush is impossible to defend, and you want to reward it on the reasoning that it's easier to defend against?

Edit: Not to mention stealth rolling - there's no way to know anything about a well done stealth attack.

that is the point imo. a badly done stealth rush is easy to defend against, so it rewards people putting some thought into how they attack. i disagree with it imo, but then i mostly play SA so i mayb be slightly biased

If it's so easy to defend, what's your problem with just sending 1 gardener, purely to indicate the eta? Because that is my point. Just reveal the eta (and your id, so whether it's f117, tl, sa, vamps...), and you are treated like everyone else. You can still attack without revealing it, but that would mean you get no bounty.

 

[Alcibiades]

I see no reason to cap see thieves. if someone can get through with thieves, they deserve as many seeds as they can carry off. If anything i'd boost (again) seed thieves stealing ability to make it a real evil weapon in any player's arsenal.

The same can be said about geo's. If you can get through, you deserve as much land as you can carry off?
It was implemented to encourage people to attack at 60+%, so now you get the bashing for seeds at 40%.
To be frank I've always been against seed thieves, because it allows players to come back from holiday with absolutely nothing: no land, no troops and no seeds. But if they need to be here, I think they should be treated the exact same way as geo's.

Absolutely not. I have recently (since a short while after injuries were introduced) been very much against people not being able to die. It takes a pretty long time to kill someone with seed thieves, especially since there is the landcap. It's nice to have a set of units that if used correctly and if you have the time, can thoroughly wipe out a player. This is a wargame, and we've gone in a soft and cushy direction recently; it's nice to be able to completely 'zero' a player. Also, i do think that if you can get through, you should deserve all the land you can carry off. *shrug* I don't like the landcap since it hasn't accomplished it's goal, since people are just willing to accept less land, and launch more attacks. Your seed thief cap would probably make people stop using them since they wouldn't be useful since people *generally* don't favour lawful attacks (at least not according to the game mechanics) and unless seed thieves stole an absolute shitload for lawful attacks, all we'd have achieved is *another* useless unit on the dev route.

Also, you don't come back to to 'no land no troops and no seeds' since we have injuries and insurance. *shrug* You can't have it all your own way... you get injuries, insurance, limiting on the land stealing, a cap on the max seed/plant/money launderers can steal/destroy and you want a further cap on the percentage? No... i don't really think that's necessary. This game already makes rebuilding pretty easy, especially in comparison to pre injuries rounds. I'd say count your lucky stars you've already got so much going for you.

 

[rooney]

I see no reason to cap see thieves. if someone can get through with thieves, they deserve as many seeds as they can carry off. If anything i'd boost (again) seed thieves stealing ability to make it a real evil weapon in any player's arsenal.

The same can be said about geo's. If you can get through, you deserve as much land as you can carry off?
It was implemented to encourage people to attack at 60+%, so now you get the bashing for seeds at 40%.
To be frank I've always been against seed thieves, because it allows players to come back from holiday with absolutely nothing: no land, no troops and no seeds. But if they need to be here, I think they should be treated the exact same way as geo's.

So you get 1 real and 3 fakes. That means the ally will have to split their lets to 4 targets, and unless you are a complete retard you wont pick the most obvious, hence they can't just mass def the RPG. Even if they defend they are opening themselves up for other attacks in a much larger scale than a conventional attack.

Or another scenario: you get two friends to send along. That's 12 unknown mobs. How do you defend that? You don't! You wait for it to show up at eta 1 and then you call the target online. The only time you defend a stealth rush if is the target can't be contacted, or if you're bored and it's only 1 mob.

A good stealth rush is impossible to defend, and you want to reward it on the reasoning that it's easier to defend against?

Edit: Not to mention stealth rolling - there's no way to know anything about a well done stealth attack.

that is the point imo. a badly done stealth rush is easy to defend against, so it rewards people putting some thought into how they attack. i disagree with it imo, but then i mostly play SA so i mayb be slightly biased

If it's so easy to defend, what's your problem with just sending 1 gardener, purely to indicate the eta? Because that is my point. Just reveal the eta (and your id, so whether it's f117, tl, sa, vamps...), and you are treated like everyone else. You can still attack without revealing it, but that would mean you get no bounty.

because sending a gardener is an example of a very badly done stealth attack