nobreakspace (Official community resource - News/Updates)

[Garrett]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

have to disagree with BW (shock? awe?) it's a simple matter of business.

Something you create is yours. Polo created an add-on. It's *his* creation. I'm not saying it was difficult or alot of work for Polo, but he did it.

He made it. He owns it. It's his. Who he shares it with is his perrogative.

Everyone else using it, didn't create their own and are happy to pay Polo for the privelege to continue using it.

Those that haven't paid for it want something for nothing. Polo created it and they want free access to his creation. Good business sense this doesn not make.

Now does this make it unfair for the game. Hard to say. If you (and by this I mean everyone complaining) think it's unfair, then code your own and have fun.

As polo said it would have already been disabled due to no longer being able to pay for the server space. Now with the donations he can continue to keep the website up and running. It's not like he's making massive profits on this. He's probably little more than breaking even.

Whether or not it should be banned is up to azzer ofc and I'm not going to comment one way or the other as I've already said my opinion on that earlier in the thread.

 

[saint1d]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

I have used the extension, and it's good, but I do feel that it takes some of the scope for personal error out of the equation. I think it makes a large aspect of the game far too easy. For the same reason I dont like AR calcs. I realise there are a lot of players who have spent years gaining skills and experience in the game, yet someone can join up and not go through the same learning curve. To me Bushtarion is all about having/learning various different skills in order to feel like you have achieved something, add-ons just spoil it imo. Long gone are the days of asking if someone can come up with an ally list and it taking 30+mins to sort out. Now all you have to do is C&P, which is just crap.

Why should I have to pay for something for this game when I already give Azzer plenty of my cash each month? In fact thinking about it more, I am actually giving Azzer money month after month to help support his game, yet someone else can pay Polo a one of £5 and have an advantage over me?

Also I dont remember Hewo charging me for his harvie calc.

Suggestion for Polo - why dont you ask people to donate for the nobreakspace graphs? They are what cost you webspace, not the extension.


PS No offence meant to Polo, like I said it's a cracking add-on and I realise you have to cover the expense involved, but surely this was a voluntary creation?

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

have to disagree with BW (shock? awe?) it's a simple matter of business.

Something you create is yours. Polo created an add-on. It's *his* creation. I'm not saying it was difficult or alot of work for Polo, but he did it.

He made it. He owns it. It's his. Who he shares it with is his perrogative.

Everyone else using it, didn't create their own and are happy to pay Polo for the privelege to continue using it.

Those that haven't paid for it want something for nothing. Polo created it and they want free access to his creation. Good business sense this doesn not make.

Now does this make it unfair for the game. Hard to say. If you (and by this I mean everyone complaining) think it's unfair, then code your own and have fun.

As polo said it would have already been disabled due to no longer being able to pay for the server space. Now with the donations he can continue to keep the website up and running. It's not like he's making massive profits on this. He's probably little more than breaking even.

Whether or not it should be banned is up to azzer ofc and I'm not going to comment one way or the other as I've already said my opinion on that earlier in the thread.

Sorry about long quote, just dont get this 1 line space between every line thing...
Garrett: Who cares of polos website? If he removes that freaking BS you must update periodically, you dont need website. I'm sure Azzer would have offered space to store that addon without any costs, as long as it is free for all.
So please dont go to BS like "web site costs". Yes I understand why Polo is doing what he is doing, hell I would probably do it myself.
Yet I think in comparison to dumpdata I cant agree. If Polos extension would be like it was, bit more for payers less for all its all ok. Now it is like dumpdata giving too much power to few selected people. It was same case with dumpdata. Ban, free for all, 3rd option? Those are things I see possible based on earlier history.
Or just make dumpdata to update every tick and we can have make it if you can tools for those with skill again, giving advantage over others.

 

[Garrett]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

you are confusing and combining 2 separate issues. There the addon for the game AND polo charging for it.

I didn't say anything about the extension as it relates to the game. The reason for Polo charging for it is not stupid. As it's his creation. And searching for alternative means to hosting is also not his responsibility.

As far as it applies to the game, I said I gave my opinion already and it's up to Azzer.

Hope this clears it up for you.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

I have used the extension, and it's good, but I do feel that it takes some of the scope for personal error out of the equation. I think it makes a large aspect of the game far too easy. For the same reason I dont like AR calcs. I realise there are a lot of players who have spent years gaining skills and experience in the game, yet someone can join up and not go through the same learning curve. To me Bushtarion is all about having/learning various different skills in order to feel like you have achieved something, add-ons just spoil it imo. Long gone are the days of asking if someone can come up with an ally list and it taking 30+mins to sort out. Now all you have to do is C&P, which is just crap.

Why should I have to pay for something for this game when I already give Azzer plenty of my cash each month? In fact thinking about it more, I am actually giving Azzer money month after month to help support his game, yet someone else can pay Polo a one of £5 and have an advantage over me?

Also I dont remember Hewo charging me for his harvie calc.

Suggestion for Polo - why dont you ask people to donate for the nobreakspace graphs? They are what cost you webspace, not the extension.


PS No offence meant to Polo, like I said it's a cracking add-on and I realise you have to cover the expense involved, but surely this was a voluntary creation?

:winner:

You honestly couldn't have said it much better than myself, you expressed all my opinions, fears, worries and pride in one post Good effort sir.

 

[Markb]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Suggestion for Polo - why dont you ask people to donate for the nobreakspace graphs? They are what cost you webspace, not the extension.

Because people wouldn't find it worth it to donate for the graphs, because they don't really help the player with the game. With the extension, it sounds like it gives them a good advantage and is therefore worth charging for.

 

[saint1d]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Suggestion for Polo - why dont you ask people to donate for the nobreakspace graphs? They are what cost you webspace, not the extension.

Because people wouldn't find it worth it to donate for the graphs, because they don't really help the player with the game. With the extension, it sounds like it gives them a good advantage and is therefore worth charging for.

Exactly, so basically Azzer is allowing someone to sell a product that gives an unfair advantage to players, to fund something else entirely different. You just backed up my argument.

 

[pinpower]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

while it does give people that have it an "advantage" the way people are talking about it portrays it as more than it is. The add-on just makes things quicker and easier, so yes it is an advantage in that way but it doesnt actually do anything that couldnt be done by a player without it (fair enough it would take alot longer but still)...

stop whinging, i actually agree with garrett on this. This is polo's creation, if he wants to charge for it...fine...if you dont want to pay for it...fine...dont have it. Some of the people that are complaining are very experienced players that arent going to be at a disadvantage to new players that have this add-on (and most people around here these days dont think objectively for the community anymore)...i therefore see only 2 reasons why you would argue: for the sake of it (most likely with some people *points at BW) or jealousy/annoyance that they cant have what someone else has.

 

[saint1d]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Of course it gives an unfair advantage!

And believe me jealousy doesnt come into it. I can easily afford to buy the bloody add-on but I dont think it's fair that I can and some others can't. For that reason I will not buy it.

 

[pinpower]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

so i assume you never purchase your P unit then?

As some others cant and it gives you an "unfair advantage"?

 

[saint1d]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

That funds "Bushtarion" not myrandomhobby.com

Do I think having to pay for blueprints is a bit unfair? Yes I do, but I realise that without it then Bush wouldn't exist.

 

[pinpower]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

That funds "Bushtarion" not myrandomhobby.com

i dont really think thats a valid argument...fair enough i also agree that i would rather pay the azzman as he created the game which delays my life...BUT basically its the same...you pay azzer for something to help you with bushtarion (punit) or you pay polo for something to help you with bushtarion...

most games these days have added extras which can make the game better/longer/give you new features etc for an added cost...not everybody is willing/able to buy them, it doesnt mean they shouldnt exist....and it certainly doesnt mean you should be denied the right to use something which you are willing and able to buy just because not everybody else is...theres a big world analogy/comparison in there but i definitely cant be bothered to think of it...lol


Just to clarify again, i dont have the add-on and dont intend to donate to get it...i am merely voicing my opinion on the subject from a slightly objective standpoint (obviously nobody is entirely objective...)

 

[f0xx]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Of course it gives an unfair advantage!

No it doesn't.

Summer:
Early hours -> Dawn -> Morning -> Noon -> Afternoon -> Evening

Winter:
Midnight -> Early hours -> Morning -> Afternoon -> Dusk -> Evening

Spring and Autumn:
Midnight -> Early hours -> Morning -> Noon -> Afternoon -> Evening

There you go, now you don't need the extension.

I really miss the thing which tells me how much money I make per tick/hour/day though. And my projected vallue too and the harv calc

 

[Illumination]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

I have no problem paying for this extension if it is going to be maintained. I would very willing pay for it at rounds start to have its use for the duration of the round. I think its as valuable as a punit to me and think that 5 bcs per round would be fair. The thing I like most is the silly tick counter on defense...I hate taking the time to see where people defending against me line up at. Yes, I could count it manually, but it takes time and I dont have time to do that anymore. I say, make it more tied into Bushtarion. Allow people to purchase it the same way that they do blueprints- buy it once and you have it til rounds end. I love the silly thing!

 

[saint1d]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Of course it is an unfair advantage if you take away the room for human error.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

That funds "Bushtarion" not myrandomhobby.com

most games these days have added extras which can make the game better/longer/give you new features etc for an added cost...not everybody is willing/able to buy them, it doesnt mean they shouldnt exist....and it certainly doesnt mean you should be denied the right to use something which you are willing and able to buy just because not everybody else is...theres a big world analogy/comparison in there but i definitely cant be bothered to think of it...lol

I think you sum up here exactly what I am after.
Hell let Azzer make addon to his own game, but I have not ever heard of someone making mod for some game and then asking money from it... rofl!

But that is not why I originally made my post. I made my post based on same thing as what happens on #bushtarion. Every ban and its duration is based on some kind of history and what kind of bans has been delivered from same action before.
As such dumpdata was removed because of it giving too much advantage to people who had skill and will to make tools for it. Now we have nerfed dumpdata that doesnt help smeg to anyone, and all kind of tools building has basically deceased.

Now we have Polo who made add on that clearly gives advantage for people using it. It was free for all, untill this recent "polo got greedy" thing. To me Polos addon actually gives more advantage for people using it than any dumpdata tool ever did. Today Polos extencion is not free for all anymore, it costs to use. So I simply by referring to what happend to dumpdata cant see current situation to be possible. It is like punishing one for swearing in IRC and letting other go.

As such I see only possibilities to be to either get polos extension banned (please no), turn dumpdata back to update every tick (so everyone can make any tools they like out of it with time,skill and will) or Azzer makes up some 3rd option which includes stuff like all those options polos extension has or so.

If not I have once again seen how this game and its leadership is not done systematically but by the most hurting way for its players, by nerfing long begged addon and then by letting someone get extra pay from makers own game and as such turning tide towards people who have money and will to pay for something that isnt even supposed to part of the game just to get extra advantage.

 

[Dematto]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Just a small suggestion, not related to the ongoing discussion.

Polo, could you add an option on the Donaters tab to remove the 'Donate' link from the menu? It's rather annoying to still have that there when I've already donated

 

[Garrett]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

*gasp* it's the need for ongoing upkeep!

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

This whole situation reminds me entirely of the GITK program which enabled the wings to cooperate together. if we banned one, i don't see how we can legitimately let the other one exist. Seems to me that polo's addon is far more actually useful than the GITK Comms link up. BW is right as well, at least follow some continuity from the original precedent, which is, it would appear, the bush dumpdata and the tools being made from that.

You (the people) are always clamouring for more 'fairness' and some straightening up and organizing of the rules. This is one of those things which should be cleared up.

 

[Maxi]

Re: nobreakspace

Re: nobreakspace

Ultimately this is up to Azzer, so I'm curious as to what he has to say. Quite funny how people love it when it's free but want it banned when it's not.