Valuation of troops

[timtadams]

I have a problem. I dont understand how the valuation of troops is calculated.

In the manual it says, quote " The "Valuation" of all of your hostile incoming is calculated with this simple formula: Value of staff divided by 500. For example if you purchased 1,000 staff which cost £15,000 each, then the total value of those staff would be: ((1000 * £15000) / 500) = £30,000 valuation."

Now when i did this i found that a mob I sent had a total value of £444,853,660:
Mob Details
Type Sent
Gardener 40,000,000
Thief 262
Wheelbarrower 7,779
Geo-Phys Thief 31,378
Seed Thief 1,845
Plant Thief 11,577
Ninja 2,000,000
Stealth Harvester 35,013
Cloner 1,000,000
Puppet Master 2,311


I sent at the same time as a friend who sent a mob of:

Gardener: 2,500,000
Geo-Phys Thief: 150,286
Assassin: 7,000,000
Stealth Harvester: 297,735

which I calculated to have a valuation of £727,830,470
Adding these together you get £1,172,684,130

Now then I spied the target and it had this to say:
Total Value: £4,101,469,538 incoming hostile.

Now that is significantly more.
The problem is we triggered anti-rape.

Now what I don't understand is why the valuation of our troops (according to a spy on the target) is so much different (greater) than what is calculated by the formula given in the manual. If someone could explain this that would be great. I'm am right now assuming that the manual is wrong...or very misleading

Check this out:

Total: 1,000 incoming hostile.
Total Value: £2,588,056,858 incoming hostile.

That incoming hostile is yobs, definitely not worth that much! ??

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: Valuation of troops

It appears you are using Polo's extension and in that i thought the spy report didn't show the total value of incoming troops, but rather the value of incoming players instead?

I don't think it's precisely that simple, but i'm fairly certain it doesn't add up the values of troops, otherwise it'd be far too easy to determine fakes/reals which would completely negate the entire game system.

 

[timtadams]

Re: Valuation of troops

Your probably right, lol

But like i said we triggered, and the total valuation of our troops was below his overall valuation (approx £2,000,000,000), we triggered SAS. Apparently triggering SAS requires something like valuation of troops = 5 x targets total valuation, we were well below 10 billion.

I also understand the AR mod, sorta, but the last time the guy was attacked was three days (about 60 hrs) ago, so his AR mod couldnt have been that high.

Do you have an explanation? Cause I have no clue

btw, my mate recalled before first tick, but we know we triggered SAS cause I spied him:

Thu 28th Jun, year 3. Evening (1 tick ago) Government incoming defences
Helicopters flew in overhead, dropping lines down around our land. Figures dressed in black, faces covered with balaclavas, dropped down the lines, assault rifles strapped to their backs. We couldn't be sure how many SAS there were.

And then my mate recalled, and then the government recalled

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: Valuation of troops

Now I suggest you go to read manual/wiki about how antirape actually works.
Your troops valuation were really high for someone who is probably pure solo, has some acres and has AR of like 50%.
You can make calculator of your own really easily to actually see how much it requires AR for your target to get gov def.
Also please dont provide peoples exact scores, or any other information that can directly lead to them on forums, IRC or any other publical way. Thank you.

 

[timtadams]

Re: Valuation of troops

did the maths:

Target valuation: £2,000,000,000
4,831 * 4,831 * 20 = £467,000,000
4,831 * 4,831 * 8 = £186,708,488

difference = £280,062,732
Valuation used in trigger calculation = £1,719,937,268
Valuation of troops= £1,172,684,130

percentage (troops of target) = 68%

SAS trigger requires 550% (5.5 x)

0.68 as a percentage of 5.5

= 12.4 %

so AR mod = 87.6 % (at least)

After three days?

I guess the question is 'at what rate does the AR mod decay?'

btw BlackWolf none of the above numbers are exactly true, and I did consider what you mentioned in your previous post, before posting mine, but didnt it seem obvious that the targets valuation will never again be that exact value? But dont worry, I changed it, just for you

 

[Hobbezak]

Re: Valuation of troops

If you've sent at least 1 lethal, you get SAS instead of Riot Police.
I think that is where you're going wrong, the 5x value doesn't apply when you've sent lets.

 

[philipd12]

Re: Valuation of troops

I guess the question is 'at what rate does the AR mod decay?'

AR drops at 0.1% per tick.
I work out AR by looking through the spy report for the last big lose they had and saying that to be 90%.

 

[timtadams]

Re: Valuation of troops

Awesome, thanks for clearing those things up for me

 

[f0xx]

Re: Valuation of troops

There are some holes in your knowledge which I will try to fill now.

Firstly, you are using Polo's extension and Polo's extension shows the total possible valuation of the attacker. Which means, it gets his total valuation, it removes the valuation of his acres and it shows that as "Total Value of incoming hostile troops". It does not metter wether you send 1 gardener or 1 mln T-Rexes (if you have them). This calculation will always be the same.


Secondly, there are four levels of AR (Anti Rape).

Level 1: Police. *To trigger this your attacking force's valuation must be above 1.6 times of his total valuation.
Level 2: Riot Police. *To trigger this your attacking force's valuation must be above 2.7 times of his total valuation. <- This number I got from atsan's post and I am not completely sure it is correct.
Level 3: SAS. **To trigger this your attacking force's valuation must be above 6 times of his total valuation.
Level 4: Bio-Mechanical Warriors. To trigger this your attacking force's valuation must be above 12 times of his total valuation.

NB: Those are the real numbers ONLY if the person has 0 AR mod.

*If you sent lethal troops, even when your attacking valuation were enough to trigger only level 1 AR, it will automatically be upgraded to level 3.
**If you have sent enough troops to trigger level 3 AR, but you have no lethal troops in your mob, then the AR help will automatically be downgraded to level 2.


Thirdly the way AR is calculated for normal solos and pure solos is different. For normal solos it is the normal way of calcualtion (TROOPS valuation + TECHNOLOGY valuation + SEEDS/PLANT/MONEY valuation + LAND valuation [land*land*20]) and for pure solos it is - TROOPS valuation + TECHNOLOGY valuation + SEEDS/PLANT/MONEY valuation + LAND valuation [land*land*16]. This way you see it is easier to trigger AR on pure solo compared to normal solo, especially if the pure solo has been hit recently and is very land fat.

And lastly, as people mentioned above, AR decays by 0.1 PER TICK. You say your target was lastly attacked 3 days ago (400 ticks roughly), which means if your target had 90% AR when the last attack landed, by the time you are attacking him (400 ticks after that) his AR will be at 50% which is still quite a significant amount of AR to deal with.

And this is an advice I will give you: When you try to calculate someone's AR from spy report, ALWAYS expect the worst scenarion, i.e. if you see he has been hit, always expect his AR to be at 90% after the hit, this way you can always send troops which will not trigger and if you are patient and observant enough you can kill any solo.

And another advice - use your intel A LOT. Those are your eyes, your ears, your nose in the bush world. The more information you have the more powerful you will be.

 

[jerky413]

Re: Valuation of troops

By my calculations, his AR would have to be:

Solo: <63%
Pure Solo: <57%

Your 68% is correct, just not used properly:

1 - (0.68 / 1.6) = AR Level ---> 57%

1.6 is for minimum Govt Response, Lethals sent triggered automatic SAS (Level 3)

So, i would conclude his AR was above 57%

 

[f0xx]

Re: Valuation of troops

I have absolutely no idea where you are getting those numbers from jerky413 and what kind of calculations are those.

 

[jerky413]

Re: Valuation of troops

I have absolutely no idea where you are getting those numbers from jerky413 and what kind of calculations are those.

I used the values given by timtadams in the original post.

The simplest way (for a non pure solo) is to simply divide your attack value by his total value to get a ratio. Then take 1 - ( Ratio / 1.6) to see what the AR level would have to be to get minimum response. In the calculation, it was 63%.

For pure solo, you have to take the total valuation subtract out the land^2*20 and add land^land*8. Then do the calculation with the adjusted valuation. For this one, it was 57%

I don't remember what the other values were for SAS, but assuming you are sending Lethals, the 1.6 is the trigger you'll get a response from.

You may have a different way to calculate, but i'm sure we all get the same answer, this just easiest way for me. If you get different answer, your probably wrong, but i'd like to see your explanation.

 

[f0xx]

Re: Valuation of troops

Uh, if 400 ticks have passed from the last attack there is is no way the solo can have more than 50% AR.

Other than that I can't understand a thing from your formula.

 

[jerky413]

Re: Valuation of troops

I found the attack timtadams made. 25-30 ticks prior to their attack, the person they attacked sent out 2 attacks and lost 14 mil troops (appears was all flak) and scored land and lost almost 36 mil in flak w/ no land in the 2nd attack.

Unfortunately too much time had passed to show when the last incoming was on the attacker, but i still think you get AR when you lose troops in an attack. And he lost 50 mil troops within about an hour.

So, i see it is highly plausible that the AR was above the limit required.

Just for my edification, foxx, given the minimal information in timtadams posts, what would you say the AR would have to be?

 

[f0xx]

Re: Valuation of troops

Ah you are right, a person does gain AR for losing troops in attack, but it is VERY low, especially for losing flak. I would still say it wasn't more than 55%.